Grieving the loss of a pet

Lindsay Miller  0:21  
Hey there. This is Lindsay, thanks so much for joining me here on the podcast where we sort through ways to stress less. I am so excited about this episode with Sarah Chauncey, she has such beautiful wisdom around the grief that accompanies the loss of a pet. And I know for adults and kids alike, that grief is massive, and it's a lot to handle. And it's not just like a one time thing. It keeps resurfacing and coming back and Sara goes through kind of why that's the case. And what makes pet grief so interesting and unique in terms of its reach and the depth that we feel it so I hope this episode brings you some peace and understanding when it comes to grief. On to the episode. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller and I'm so glad you're here to make your life a little less stressful. Today we're going to be talking about talking about grieving pets. And I have Sarah Chauncey with me and she has so much insight on this topic and I'm excited to connect with her in this conversation. She's written and edited for nearly every medium over the past three decades from print to television to digital. Her writing has been featured on Eckhart tolle.com Modern loss as well as in lion's roar and Canadian living. She lives on Vancouver Island in British Columbia with her current cat Ariel, who is super cute, where she divides her time between writing, editing nonfiction and walking in nature. Sara writes, among other things about navigating the grief that comes through losing a pet. By directly addressing the realities of pet relationships, and addressing that they usually only live a portion of the human lifespan. Sarah helps us connect with the realities of grief, as well as the opportunities we have to make the most of our time with our pets. She's had a significant mindfulness practice since 2010. And she's been writing about techniques for developing mindfulness and self awareness on her blog, living the mess since 2014. Her book, PS, I love you more than tuna takes that experience, and shines it through a new pa shaped lens. Sara, thank you so much for joining me today.

Sarah Chauncey  2:32  
Thanks so much for having me, Lindsay. Glad to be here.

Lindsay Miller  2:37  
I'm glad you're here too. You don't I have been able to connect a couple of times now in you know, like technologically and then chatting. And what I have been really impressed about each time is just your authentic approach to life. And I can really appreciate that having this conversation through that authentic lens is going to be high impact for a lot of people. So thank you for being willing to show up, share your experiences and give us some insights into how to connect with our pets and how to navigate the grief that comes with losing them.

Sarah Chauncey  3:09  
Well, thank you. I hope so. I hope people will get good information out of this and, and self compassion.

Lindsay Miller  3:19  
Yeah, yes. So let's get started. One of the things we're going to focus on is just mindfully connecting with our pets now kind of living with the realization that our pets lifespan is different than ours and embracing every day with just a zest for connection, and then recognizing and honoring the special grief that accompanies that human and animal bond. So along those lines, let's start out with talking about what is different about the depth of grief we experience for our pets, because it's a grief like no other. Right?

Sarah Chauncey  3:53  
It really is we all I mean, I believe that the the bond we have with animals is powerful, because we don't share language. And we can't endlessly discuss that. animals become witness come into our lives and they witness us as we fully are, you know, they see aspects of ourselves that sometimes we wouldn't show a partner, and every individual within a family has a different relationship to the pet. And that makes it really complicated to grieve within a family context. I've experienced a lot of human loss as well as animal loss. And with the human loss, for example, my mother died when I was nine. And you know, people were aware of it and there was a whole group of people mourning her. And then in the 80s I did some psychosocial AIDS research on on social support. And I was a volunteer and a buddy And in that community, you know, the line I wrote, I think for modern loss was, you know, if grief is like living on a different planet, then we had enough people to call on us. And with a, with a pet, it's very individual, it's our own grief, it's deeply personal. And you know, for a child, it could be their sibling, they just it's, well, there are two parts, there's the sense of like, losing a relationship and an experience that we can't, that nobody else has understood or witness.

Lindsay Miller  5:40  
Yeah, I can really appreciate the way you just describe that. And it's not something that I think I had connected with on on that deep of a level. So like the idea that it's an experience that we're missing of the pet, as well as the relationship, and that those two things are going to be unique to each of us. And so the grief is isolating in its own way. And while we might collectively miss the pet, what the pet represents, or the way the that we interact with the pet is

Sarah Chauncey  6:12  
is our own? Absolutely. So. And I mean, pet loss is not really culturally recognized. I know a lot of adults who have been met with comments like well just get another one. Or it's just. And that's just like, I have my hand over my heart, because that's so painful. And that is a huge part of what makes it difficult to grieve an animal. You know, we live in a culture that puts humans above all else, even though all of us are expressions of nature. are animals and US alight?

Lindsay Miller  6:54  
Yeah, that's a such a beautiful, no, I just like it. Yeah, I'd love to just appreciate the way that you put that.

Sarah Chauncey  7:01  
And then I wanted to talk a bit about the experience, because there are three aspects who are grieving the being. And within, you know, if there are more than one, people living in your home with the animal, then you can all fairly well agree on missing the being and the routine and the affection. But it is the experience the one on one experience that we have with animals. We can't conceptualize that. And we, you know, animals aren't our thoughts about them. The bond isn't what we think the bond is. It's just there. Yeah. And we grieve the loss of experience, as well as the beer. And the the experience is deeply, deeply personal. And it's hard to articulate what we're grieving. Because that experience, I mean, you can put a lot of labels of what the being that's missing. But the experience can't really be articulated. It's beyond the thinking mind. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  8:10  
Yeah, it makes sense to like, that the kind of unconditional love that we get from pets is so enriches, like so much that like the loss of that is so so deep.

Sarah Chauncey  8:27  
Yes, it can really cut deep because as, as expressions of nature, as humans, as any species, we want to be witness, we want to be accepted for who we are. And often animals are the only ones who fully accept us for who we are assuming, you know, they haven't, you know, they're cared for and have no reason to be afraid. Yeah. And they witnessed entire chapters up in our lives. And for many kids, you know, there's one animal that that kind of accompanies them through childhood and into the teenage years, and then maybe another when they go to college and adopt afterwards, or move out and adopt.

Lindsay Miller  9:15  
Yeah, yeah. So like that the, the experience of themselves in those years is unique to that pet.

Sarah Chauncey  9:23  
Yes. Yes. I mean, when I adopted hetta, I was 30. I was a chain smoker who drank four liters of Diet Pepsi every day. And when she died, none at all, and I lived in Toronto, and I was a type A, you know, writer, and then you know, by the time she died, none of that I was in a whole new complete situation. So yeah, I think there is sort of stages of our lives are all right identified in our memory sometimes with what pet was with us.

Lindsay Miller  10:06  
Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense to me. Well, I'm like from a heartfelt place. It's, you know, like a stage of life that maybe was really rich, or you know, when your kids are growing up or you know, when you're like you're saying a transformative time where you've just taken and making made so many changes, and to have the little witness there. And then to miss that witness, but maybe carry on the memory in your life, you know, like, yes, honor, honor their place in your life by the person you've become.

Sarah Chauncey  10:42  
Yes. I love that.

Lindsay Miller  10:47  
So these are a few of the reasons that it's really hard to, to move through the loss of a pet, right? I mean, I love this quote from one of your articles that says grief is not about getting over a loss, it's about accepting that the loss happened and being able to move forward on our own in our own lives, any loss will always be a part of your life experience, just as the animal or person for that matter will always have been significant to you.

Sarah Chauncey  11:11  
Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Because, you know, our culture is really about, you know, feel good, happy, happy, joy, joy, and stay busy enough so that you don't feel any existential angst, you know. And animals allow us to slow down and feel and the thing about grief is the only way out is through. And it's it feels paradoxical. Sometimes our brains try to protect our hearts by saying, you know, that shouldn't have happened or coming up with like, feelings of guilt feelings, you know, sadness is totally normal or feelings of I didn't do enough. And the more we can kind of pause the thinking, and the rumination and simply allow the grief, the feelings to move through us. In my experience, then the grief eventually does go through, kind of it moves through. And we can function at a higher level. But the more we resist the grief, the more it's going to double down on us on our bodies, on our emotions, mental health. So it's paradoxical that leaning into the pain or just allowing the pain is the way to get the kind of go through. I also wanted to mention a psychologist named William Warden, who wrote about the four tasks of mourning, which is an alternate paradigm to Elisabeth Kubler Ross's five grief stages. And the first task of mourning is to accept that the loss happened. That's it, you know, grief isn't a problem to be solved. And it doesn't mean that anything is wrong. It's a feeling it's an energy that needs to move through us. And there's a writer named Jamie Anderson, who has this wonderful quote, that says, grief is love with no place to go. And, you know, grief, I think grief and love are two sides of the same point. Because any relationship between any two beings is going to end at some point, whether by death or otherwise. And, you know, accepting that is very hard, but also profound.

Lindsay Miller  14:00  
Because you're saying, when we accept the grief and stop fighting it, we kind of, we allow ourselves to be transformed by it, because we move through it and we can't help but be transformed by grief.

Sarah Chauncey  14:12  
Exactly. I had another line of you know, Grief can crack our hearts open and make us gentle. And what I mean by that is, the feelings of grief can be so overwhelming. I think most people you know, who've experienced any loss, understand brain fog. That feeling can be so overwhelming. So there's another paradigm, or meme is probably a better way to put it. That shows grief as a diminishing part of an like a circle within a circle. And so when you first lose someone, or a being or a pet, that you're your whole life is kind of consumed or subsumed within that circle. And my experience is that over time, that inner circle, the grief becomes smaller, so that it doesn't it doesn't go away. But your your life grows around it. And I'm not the first to say that I don't know who to credit. But that has been my experience. Yeah, I've lost a lot of people close to me and a lot of animals and when not a lot of animals. Yeah. And they're all still, you know, they live on in our hearts. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  15:45  
I love that graphic of the circle, you've just you described, I've never seen that one. But it makes a lot of sense. The one that came to mind as you were talking earlier, about kind of cracking your heart open was a graphic I've talked about here on the podcast before, listeners know that I grief and I have had a little bit of a combative relationship at the first part of my life where I was in the camp of people you describe, to tend to fight it. And eventually grief, let me know that we would be good friends for most of my life. And so I would, it was my invitation to get acquainted at a deeper level and learn how to, you know, sit with grief in the same room pretty consistently. And so, as I've done that, I've availed myself of different types of support, you know, whether it was yes, psychotherapy or grief groups, or counseling groups, those kinds of things. And so, in one of those settings, there was this graphic of these cards, and there was a, it was a cement heart. So it was like a stepping stone that was in the shape of a heart. And then oh, the grief was represented by a crack. And then you know, that the tendency we have as humans is to kind of try to shove it back together, right, and to figure out how to make the crack, go away, or glue it, you know, whatever we write. And the progression of cards was, you know, so this whole heart and this crack through it. And then there were some things growing around it, which eventually seated in that crack, and then the crack became, you know, like a flowering space. So they were lovely in the space of the crack. But I think that's kind of what you're describing. And that at first when, when the devastation hits, like the process of grief and acceptance is, it can be a challenging one. And it really does take a sense of almost fortitude, right to say, I'm gonna go through this, right, instead of trying to shove it down or move around it, or I'm really good at just like trying to conceptualize it like, yeah, I should be great. No grief is like, just make it totally manually,

Sarah Chauncey  18:13  
I understand. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  18:16  
So I really appreciate you bringing in the first part of our conversation, that experiential piece of the relationship because I think the nature of our pet, you know, pet human relationship is experiential. And so the grief is going to be you by nature, experiential, like it can be nothing other than that, and then simultaneously can be transformational.

Sarah Chauncey  18:44  
Yeah. Wow. I love that. I wanted to go back to that. That circle, meme. Yeah, again, because it's also it provides a good visual metaphor for something that I often mentioned, which is, when you're in grief, if you can remember to kind of come back to the moment if you have an established mindfulness practice, you know, try allowing yourself putting some space around the deep grief. Allowing, you know that visual, if you can visualize your grief as a piece within you, and just kind of go okay, this is how it is right now. Yeah, which is a lot easier said than done. Like. It's very easy for me to say it's really hard to do in the moment through but in my experience, when I can remember to go, Okay, well, this is how I'm feeling. And it just wants to be here. And just visual visually, just imagine kind of the circle around you expanding a little bit to allow that

Lindsay Miller  20:01  
Hmm. Yeah, that's a powerful visual, I guess I had seen it as the grief shrinking, but the way you just described it makes much more sense that like, you expand, to make space for the grief.

Sarah Chauncey  20:16  
Yeah, I mean, if nothing else, on a purely neurological level, we take in a lot more information. Grief becomes a smaller part of our lives, simply because we're having more and more experiences. It's sort of like, how when you get older, the years go by much faster, because they're a smaller percentage of our life.

Lindsay Miller  20:41  
Yeah, that makes sense.

Sarah Chauncey  20:43  
Yeah, I do think I will say that for me. You know, the grief has passed from all these losses. And I don't feel like I'm in acute grief. So I don't want people to worry that they're going to be feeling the pain they're in, you know, at the moment of a pet's death to be this is what it's going to be forever. You don't have to know how you're going to get through all of it. Just this one moment. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  21:14  
So when listeners know, like, if we're, if we have a pet, and we know they're nearing the end of their lives, what are some steps people can take to, to make the eventual passing easier.

Sarah Chauncey  21:27  
This is, this is another paradox. And it's such a profound time. Meaning ripe with potential because it's so painful. There's a phrase that I love called serve from your saucer, which means fill your own cup first. So you know, or put your oxygen mask on first. So serve from your saucer take care of yourself. Focus on just this moment. Like really intensely, I sometimes use physical sensations like touch smell, sounds, to bring myself kind of into what I call fierce

Lindsay Miller  22:11  
presence. Okay, fierce presence. I

Sarah Chauncey  22:14  
love them. That one of the hardest things is that we, I mean, we do start creeping. As soon as we hear, prepare yourself, regardless of how long the pet lives after that. And in my case, I first heard prepare yourself eight years before headed died. So yeah, I mean, even if you get a scary diagnosis, the pet is still with you in this moment. So this is the time to really bring attention into your relationship. You know, if you're giving subcutaneous fluids or medication, make that a bonding time. You know, I often recommend telling the animal what what you're doing and why. And not because I think they understand human English, but because I think talking about it helps us communicate the energy that they can understand. Okay.

Lindsay Miller  23:16  
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Sarah Chauncey  23:18  
And, you know, there's that great line of accepting the things you cannot change, which is also easier said than done. But over the past 14 years, almost every spiritual teaching, I've read or listened to, boils down to acceptance, of acceptance of what is. And so this is an opportunity to go back to wardens first task of mourning, the task for the person or the family is to accept that the loss is going to happen, which is, yeah, that's more than a little thing. That is a really big thing, because all of us when faced with loss, will initially resist, you know, like, No, I love this being I want them to stay. I there was a woman who works with my that, who gave me the best advice I've heard. And she said, this was when I was I had decided it was time for euthanasia, but I couldn't. I couldn't bring myself to schedule it. And she said, take the time to let your emotions catch up to the situation. And the way it was just such a beautiful, beautiful phrase. And she said, you know, if you can do that, it goes a long way towards healing. So I really I took that and ran with it, because in our case, his pain was under control. So there was a little bit of a window. And so my task at that point It was okay, except that this loss is going to happen. And that was a full time job for a while. But I will say that I think it really, all the pre grieving, I did all the anticipatory grief really, really helped when the time actually came.

Lindsay Miller  25:20  
And that's so interesting, because you know, you you, you could see it going the other way to where people are fighting themselves and saying, like, Why am I crying? This isn't even real, you know, they're not even gone yet. Why am I crying, but what you're saying is, in the process of letting go and in the process of acquainting yourself with the loss of your pet, you're going to feel we are going to feel so many different things, and just allowing those things to surface as they come makes it so we're not dealing with a bunch of residual grief. But we're present with whatever grief is coming up for us in the moments that were in.

Sarah Chauncey  25:56  
Exactly. A you put it much more articulately than I did. You know, this moment, she get kind of intense, this moment is all any of us ever had. And so when we're thinking about how we're ever going to cope with the pet stuff, we don't know, we can't know that until it happens. So staying in the moment, I found a really, really helpful way to navigate that time period.

Lindsay Miller  26:29  
Yeah, that's so powerful. So in terms of the the human animal relationship, I think we've touched on so many of the reasons that it has depth. And we've touched on how the grief is so different and needs to be honored as its own experience. And it's unique to each of us. As we're thinking about this and accepting the fact that like whenever we're bringing a pet into our lives, that likely it's time with us will end, you know, before it will die before we do. What are some of the ways we can make the most of those years like you're saying presence, just full and fierce? I love that phrase. Fierce presence is one of the ways we can just make the most of those 10 to 20 years, what are some other ways?

Sarah Chauncey  27:19  
Oh, man, um, well, to go back to the word gap. That's really when we can accept. I mean, when we can accept, which is a task unto itself. But when we can accept that animals at this stage have shorter lifespans than humans, we value what's scarce. And so we can't extend their lives, but we can go deeper with them. And, for example, try looking at them without labels. As though this is the first time you've ever seen anything like this, and see if that changes your perception of them. I'm a big fan of paying deep attention to what each animal wants. You know, they're, they all have different personalities. And so really noticing the moments when they make you laugh, or noticing what they like or don't like. Really witnessing them in the same way that they witness us.

Lindsay Miller  28:27  
Hmm, that's so beautiful, because there are those energetic exchanges where even though there's not communication, you know, they're sending you a message and you know, you know, what would make them happy? Right, then you know, what they're asking you for, you know, you just know. Yeah, that's really powerful. What are some of the things that we learn from our pets Aside from this, like deep invitation to presence? What are some things that we learned from them?

Sarah Chauncey  28:56  
Well, presence is a huge one. And unconditional love is a big one, especially for dogs. Yeah, for sure. Susan Milan has this great line about we get the dog we need not necessarily the dog we want. And I believe I believe that's true for all species. You know, every, every being has some unique stuff. Had a my big cat who inspired tuna. She was very much like my fur mom. I never thought of her as a fur baby. You know, what had been missing in my life was maternal loving energy. Yeah. And I just felt that so powerfully from her. I mean, I've had cats throughout my life. I've never experienced anything like that. And so she was a nurturer. and Ariel, I'm convinced is here to get me off my devices. Because she will knock my I can't even count how often she's knocked my phone out of my hand, she'll climb on the keyboard on the iPad. So with her, I think there's an element of lighten up, which is, you know, that's fair enough.

Lindsay Miller  30:25  
I love that idea that like they each are going to teach us it's not the universal things that pets teach us in general, although that can be the case. But that pet will have a different message or a different thing we can learn. And it's inherent in that universal and yet unique connection that the transpires.

Sarah Chauncey  30:46  
It's so yeah, that's so true. When I first moved into the apartment, where I live, it's I moved from a very, very quiet area to a super downtown, super noisy, lots of traffic area, which I personally just like, I can't use too much everything. Yeah, you know, everything everywhere all at once. And, but then I watched Aereo when I adopted her, and she was sort of looking at the traffic with lots of curiosity, kind of the same way she looks at bugs. And I thought, well, of course, she doesn't know their cats or their cars. He doesn't know what any of this is. She just sees movement. And so she's not judging any of it. She's like, Oh, this is interesting. You know, so she can remind me to stop judging my experience too. As as they're sirens in the distance. Oh, look, there they go. One of I don't remember who wrote this, but I do remember, reading that someone wrote, you know, one of the gifts that animals give us is that they teach children about death and impermanence. And for many of us, you know, our childhood pet is the first being we experienced the loss of. Um, so there's a ripe opportunity there. But it's also I think, a lot. It's probably a lot more painful for kids, because they just don't have, you know, their life circle is pretty small. As we were talking about that metaphor earlier. Yeah. So, you know, a little bit of grief takes up the whole thing.

Lindsay Miller  32:43  
Yes, that's profound. Because, yeah, they're, they don't have the experience yet to hold it. And they have to x Yeah. And to hold it in ways that some people don't come to till much later in life.

Sarah Chauncey  32:57  
Yes, if ever. And, you know, yeah, to, to allow this, these big feelings and big energy, and, you know, learning how to process it. But for a kid, or even a teenager, you know, the pet might have been with them since birth, they may you know, that the pet might just be another sibling. And so if we go back to kind of how much the overlap of grief versus a person's life experience for a young person, there's just not, I mean, that that much life experience hasn't happened yet. And it just, it can be overwhelming. And the animal was with them for 100% or 99%. of their life thus far, where as you know, I'm 55 head it was with me know, a little over 30% of my life. So, yeah.

Lindsay Miller  34:01  
Ya know, that makes a lot of sense. Well, and we've talked, we've talked around head a little bit, but let's get into that because you wrote, I love you more than tuna. Talk to us about how that came about in Headstart. Oh,

Sarah Chauncey  34:13  
it's, it's such a sweet story. I'm about two days after Hannah left. I received a sketch of her from a man I knew primarily as a good friend's husband, although we'd work together occasionally. And he's a professional illustrator or he was and he drew a SketchUp header, and he wrote a note. He's from Montreal, so he has kind of unique syntax, and he wrote, Sarah Hedda is telling you make let our love make you strong to go forward. That's what love is for right And then he wrote still from headers, viewpoint, PS, I love you more than tuna. And I began to sob. But even through the sobbing, I thought that would make a great book title. And he and I had briefly discussed collaborating. And one of the things I love about his art, is that it, it just reaches in and touches the eight year old inside all of us. Yeah. And I immediately had this flash, that was like an assignment of a gift book that could be given to people who are grieving animals that was simply written to match his style. And the main thing I knew was that he had to be the illustrator. And as, I mean, we came out the book came out in 2020, during the pandemic, a week before the election. So, you know, my vision of having it on the front tables at Barnes and Noble and chapters. Yeah, but was

Unknown Speaker  36:06  
not really an out. Yeah.

Sarah Chauncey  36:09  
But as an extreme introvert, that was fine with me. So yeah, it was a vision and an assignment. And I just knew it had to happen. And things kind of unfolded magically, from there. So at 1.5 years ago, I was asked to foster a feral mama cat, and her one of her kittens. So that all of a sudden, I had like 1000 people who loved cats following me. And I said, Hey, you know, I wrote this little manuscript, anyone want to read it? And about 50 people did. And I had created maybe 100 scenarios of, you know, what a cat does through its lifespan. And then I just asked people to choose the ones that resonated the most. And that resonated the least, you probably didn't need all that detail about the book, but it's sort of, I think it's kind of fun information.

Lindsay Miller  37:10  
Yeah, just about the emergence of it well, and, and you when you wrote it, like you pointed this out, you wrote it to be a gift, rather than something you would get, you know, get for yourself, you wrote it to be given? Yes.

Sarah Chauncey  37:27  
I did that for a couple of reasons. The first is when someone loses an animal, those of us who aren't that person, we often don't know how to really offer support, we know how devastating it is. But, you know, we don't have wakes, nobody brings casseroles, it's there are no cultural ritual rituals. And one of the things about cultural ritual, that's a really hard phrase to say, natural in ritual you got is that they give us a way to grieve. You know, they're they help us through the grieving and awakes funerals sitting Shiva, they all help carry us through the grief. But when an animal dies, there is none of that. So I wanted there to be something. Like I called it an empathy gift. And it's a way that friends and family can take a tangible action to meet someone else's need in the moment. And it says, you know, I know you're hurting. And I'm really sorry. I don't know what to say. But here's something I think will help for the recipient. So when I received the gift from Francis, the sketch, I felt seen by him, I mean, he was saying, I know you love this being and I know you're sad. And, you know, if animals provide that witnessing for the span of their life's life, then after they're gone, having something to kind of mirror back a witnessing gift, you know, to kind of get them through the stages of early grief. And I don't claim that the book does that. But you know, it's just, it's a win win. It says, I see you grieving. And it's the opposite of how pet loss is usually treated in our culture. But there's another aspect which is in 2011. I joined a group called 29 gifts, which is based on a book called 29 gifts, how a month of giving can change your life by Kenny Walker. And it basically it's what it says it says give something away every day for you. for 29 days, and it doesn't have to be money, it can be patience, it can be a parking space. And I noticed that whenever I was able to meet someone's deep need, meaning I was able to buy food for someone on the street, you know, it just felt so expansive. I felt joyous in a way that it's hard to describe. And I'm not like a naturally giving person. You know, I mean, I think part of the reason I don't have a family of my own is that I'm very inward focused, but I really wanted other people. So the giving practice gets me out of my head. And I really wanted other people to experience that joy of giving. So it's kind of like, it gives the, the person who gives the book has something tangible to offer a tangible action, the person who receives the book, gets witnessing, receives witnessing, and the person who gives the book gets the opportunity to feel that expansiveness of a gift that really touches somebody. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  41:11  
such a beautiful way to build community to because one of the things that, you know, you mentioned, the rituals that we have in place for the loss of a human. And they all have some sort of community element to them. And that connection beyond the loss, right and that support and, and so I love that you created your own space for connection, you know, the book being The opportunity for those things to happen, like you said to be for someone to be witnessed and seen. And then for someone to be, you know, able to access that expansive experience of giving. It's powerful, a powerful moment. What are some other tangible actions people can take? When you know, a loved one is grieving a pet?

Sarah Chauncey  42:01  
This is such a great question. And it's so important because so often we don't know what to do. Yeah. Top of the list, is to reflect back to the human how much that person meant to that animal. You know, that they gave them a good life. It can be adapted for kids, you can talk about, you know, memories together of like, you know, one of the reasons I promote mindfulness during a pet's life is because those moments eventually become cherished memories. Yeah, and so the more I've just heard a lot of people say that having people reassure them, that they they did okay, was really powerful. Another one if, if possible, making a donation to a local rescue in the animals met. That was a big one. Not everyone's able to do that. And that's totally fine. But if, if you're in a position to do that, I think that's been number one from everyone. I've asked that question too. Deep listening, and just holding space for that grief, not offering advice unless the person asks it, just really being present with them, and accepting each point that each person's grief is unique. There's no right or wrong in grief, except not dealing with it. So withhold judgment because some people never cry in front of others, some people might not be able to stop crying. Some people might suddenly be running 10 miles a day. I mean, everybody metabolizes grief in a different way. So try to just accept what, whatever it is that they need, and try to meet whatever needs if they're able to state I need this, then, you know, trying to provide whatever this is, is helpful. But I think reflecting back is a big one for families with each other because you have this unit who all have been witnessing each other through our filters you know, for however long and yeah, holding on to memories, good memories. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  44:44  
those are some such great suggestions. Thank you. What you have a recommendation around creating a ritual to say goodbye. Can you walk us through what that might look like?

Sarah Chauncey  44:57  
Yeah, sure. I this goes back to the comment I heard from the woman at my events of take time to let your emotions catch up to your decision. So I mean, I don't know where I got the idea, but I just intuitively sense that I needed to do something to kind of mark this. So I blocked off time to spend with data. And if there are multiple family members, I would say, give each person a block of time to say goodbye, you know, and remember, all the, all the adventures, you've had together all the weird little things that made you laugh, I, I recommend talking to the animal again, not because they understand English, but because I think that they get it at some level, you know, thank them for being there. Talk about, you know, difficult periods where that animal helped you through and thank them for those. I also, I played music, a song that I really love called lullaby by an artist named Chris Williamson. And it is a transition song. But that song had a history with Hedda and me. I lit a candle, and I just curled up on the bed with her. That was it. I also did a visualization where I separated my energy from hers. Because after 20 years, it was really entangled. And that does seem to have helped me I didn't want her taking any of my energy with her or her leaving any part of her here. If that makes sense. Yeah, so a ritual it really depends. Like, it could be what was some someone told me recently like holding on to a dog's tags and taking the same route. Afterwards, although that would be after nevermind. So yeah, the only I can only really explain how I did mine. Yeah, I hope that helps.

Lindsay Miller  47:24  
It does not so beautiful. I'm if anyone else is tearing up listening. You're not alone? Oh, no, I just can really appreciate the intention, you know, that you that you put into that ritual. And I connected with it, you know, as you're describing it, the connection that you had. So the invitation is then to come up with your own meaningful ritual in a way that honors like your intention for that moment, right. What I'm hearing you say is you thought through what you want in that moment to look like and what would be special for the two of you. And then you made it made it a reality.

Sarah Chauncey  48:05  
Yeah. I mean, I was pretty brain foggy the whole time. But yeah,

Lindsay Miller  48:11  
yeah. Well, and I think in some moments with grief, you know, like I was saying earlier, I can get really heady about it, but at its core, it's so instinctual that I think in those moments if we just trust our instincts around it that yeah, we'll know you know, we'll know what rituals would would it be meaningful or what have connections we want to make as we seek by definitely well this was such a beautiful conversation and I know like as listeners it probably also you could feel the depth of it. So in terms of in terms of grief, I think it can be challenging, like we mentioned at the beginning to take the time to walk through it and wade through it but hopefully as you've done that with us today and Sarah Thank you again for your your guidance on this path through grief with pets that we can come come to the experience with the kind of intention and presence that that can add a richness to it and while it wouldn't take away the pain of it and the challenges of it that it will add meaning

Sarah Chauncey  49:23  
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Lindsay and I think finding meaning is important in all aspects of life.

Lindsay Miller  49:32  
Yeah, for sure. Well, before we close can we can these are going to be not quite as deep as the question.

Sarah Chauncey  49:42  
You cry with my answers. No, no,

Lindsay Miller  49:45  
no, I knew this episode as I was preparing the questions for you. I was crying so I was like I'm gonna be I'm gonna see how I knew I was gonna cry at some point. So I just didn't know how much I would be crying during this episode. So it's, it was expected Okay. Before I that, I think it's because like you said, just to the depth of connection, I mean, like when we have pets when we have people who have pets, we just, you know, you know that connection that's just its own and so beautiful. And the gratitude for it is is vast. Yes. So yeah, these questions won't be like my other ones a little lighter. It's not like the other. These are just more about you. Yes. So what is your what is your favorite food? Sara?

Sarah Chauncey  50:39  
Oh, man, I was so excited. When I saw this question. I I rotate foods, but right now, sweet potatoes are my favorite. Especially with I wanted to do a little plug for a local vegan meat company that ships across North America. Oh, it's a company called very good butchers out of Victoria. Okay, see, which is about 90 minutes from me. And they make I mean, I I'm not a big meat eater, so I can't really say Oh, this is exactly like sausage. But they make these amazing bean based English bangers. And I just love having that with sweet potatoes and some cinnamon, Bangers and Mash. Yeah, yep. And also, it's a very kid friendly meal with a lot of protein.

Lindsay Miller  51:33  
Thank you all kinds of tips we're getting today. What is your favorite way to relax?

Sarah Chauncey  51:41  
Oh, walking in a forest. Absolutely. Walking in. There's a an island. So Vancouver Island, and specifically where I live is the unseeded and traditional territory of the Coast Salish people and the snuneymuxw First Nation. And one of the cinnamyl sacred places is an island called say suction. And it's a very small island, maybe a mile long, half a mile wide, 22 kilometers, about 16 miles of trails. And I used to go over four or five times a week. And just being there. I could feel stressed drained out of me. So any kind of nature. Big fan.

Lindsay Miller  52:29  
Yes, I hear you there. I hear you there. Okay. And then one funny pet related story.

Sarah Chauncey  52:37  
When I moved into this apartment, there were no screen doors. I have a balcony with sliding doors. And I just thought Yeah, I knew I was gonna adapt. So I have a screen that was custom made with pet mesh, which is seven times stronger than regular mesh screen. And Ariel has, you know, basically, they've paid for themselves many times over because I often find aerial climbing, or are just hanging on at the very top of the screen, just chilling out, looking at the birds, and it just holds just in a hole, like a chin up kind of thing. So that's and then I guess I'll share one other which is when Hedda was about this age for she had a real thing for feather dusters. And she would carry them around like she prints like her whole body would chain. And she'd be like, I did this like Oh, fierce.

Lindsay Miller  53:41  
You and your feather duster. Yes. Me that. Well, Sarah, thank you again. It's been a joy to connect with you today a joy, interestingly talking about grief. And I am grateful for your experience and again, your willingness to share it with such authenticity and insight and for the depth that you went to in your own grief and the way that can inform and support other other people and other families as they navigate grief in their own lives with their pets. So thank you.

Sarah Chauncey  54:17  
Thank you very much, Lindsay. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Lindsay Miller  54:23  
Before we go, can you let people know how they can connect with you how they can find more than tuna. I love you more than tuna. So that they can they can offer that up as a gift.

Sarah Chauncey  54:35  
Ah yes. So the website for the book is more than tuna.com. And under that on that site under the buy the book now you can order from Amazon bookshop, Barnes and Noble. I probably shouldn't start mentioning this because I can or sounds Through who is the publisher. And on Facebook, the group is called PS I love you more than tuna, or the page is called that. And then there's a group called tuna attributes, which is a place where people can be witnessed by other people who understand what they're going through. And on Instagram, which is the platform I really enjoy the most. I'm also I have my own account, but then also more than tuna. Okay. And if anyone wants to read living the mess, that's living the mess.com, which my sister pointed out, looks like living themes as a.com.

Lindsay Miller  55:48  
Well, and I haven't been on all of those sites. And as one who studies practices and teaches mindfulness, I really could. Yeah, just appreciate the way mindfulness was woven throughout and living the mess had so many, so many great thoughts on on it as well. So yeah, check out check out those sites. And thank you again, Sarah, we'll, we'll be in touch and I'm sure that the the wisdom you shared here will spread far and wide. So thanks again.

Sarah Chauncey  56:16  
Thanks so much.

Lindsay Miller  56:18  
Thanks again, for tuning into this episode. If you are grieving the loss of a pet right now, I send so much love, so much love. And if you know someone who's grieving the loss of a pet, please share this episode with them. I hope that it helps us all feel a little more understood as we grieve the connection we've had to our pets and also allows us the opportunity to connect with other people in their grief. Maybe it's by giving Sarah's book maybe it's just by, you know, having a remembrance of the pet. Just really honoring and recognizing the the loss that comes when we lose a pet. And so, with so much love, I send my gratitude for you tuning in this week. Feel free to subscribe and join us each week for a new episode. And if you would leave a review, I would really appreciate that too. You can go to www.ratethispodcast.com/thestressnanny and leave a quick review and that helps other people find it. All right. Until next time!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai