Horses, Healing, And Raising Resilient Kids

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Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where we take the overwhelm out of parenting and help kids and parents build calm, confidence, and connection.

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I'm your host, Lindsay Miller, kids' mindfulness coach and cheerleader for busy families everywhere.

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Each week we'll explore simple tools, uplifting stories, and practical strategies to help your child learn emotional regulation, resilience, and self-confidence, while giving you a little more peace of mind, too.

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I'm so glad you're here.

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My guest today is Shane Jacob.

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Shane is a certified life coach, professional horseman, and entrepreneur.

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His feelings of inadequacy as a young adult led to drinking alcohol to excess on a regular basis.

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His excessive drinking led to a tragic DUI accident, which led to incarceration.

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The cycle continued.

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He failed in business, failed in marriage, destroyed relationships, was overweight by over 40 pounds, and was so disgusted and ashamed of himself.

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He lied and tried to hide it from everyone for years.

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With the help of horses and God's hand, he finally broke free.

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Shane took the process and principles he used to turn his life around, combined them with what he learned from his career, working with horses, to create stable living coaching, where he helps parents and teens with the challenges they face in today's world.

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Shane, thank you so much for joining me today.

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I am looking forward to our conversation.

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Thanks so much for having me.

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Appreciate the opportunity, Rende.

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Yeah.

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So tell us a little bit more about how you got to where you are now.

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What led you into this part of your life and how you ended up doing the work that you're doing?

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Sure.

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Appreciate that.

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So, you know, turns out when I was a young man, a teenager, and even into my 20s, I seemed like I just had this constant noise in my head saying, you know, you just don't quite measure up or, you know, you're not quite good enough.

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I just felt like it was lacking in the fishing.

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I had a super hard time being around other kids.

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And I really tried to fit in the groups, and I did pretty good in sports, and I did actually be in academics as long as I wanted to, and then I didn't, but it didn't feel good, you know, and I didn't really know what to do with it.

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I didn't know anything about it other than it didn't feel good.

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I knew that.

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These noises, right?

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This chatter in my head.

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Then I was about 16 and I found a solution with alcohol.

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I felt better.

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I mean, problem solved, and you know, inhibitions gone.

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I mean, it just felt so much better inside.

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And in part and really mostly because of that cycle, I began drinking more and more regularly and more.

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And then the volume I was drinking went up.

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What would happen was is I knew that what I was doing was wrong when I was over-drinking, drinking to excess, and some of the stuff that I had done, and drinking and driving, and I knew it was all wrong.

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And so my cycle was something like this.

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I'd feel bad about the way I thought about myself.

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So then I'd drink and I'd feel better.

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Then I'd sober up and feel worse because of the things that I'd done and all the things that were wrong.

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And so then I'd feel worse.

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And so then I'd drink.

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And so in short, I just left a path for a lot of years of pain.

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I mean, I caused so much pain and destruction to other human beings, let alone myself, that it's just really sad because some things, some things you can't go back and fix.

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And I cause a lot of those things to happen.

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And, you know, eventually, I like to say, with the help of horses and the grace of God, I finally broke out of that cycle because let me tell you, I was ingrained into it.

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And I mean, when I mean drinking, I mean like drinking.

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And I mean I didn't miss any days.

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I was 100% or two decades worth of drinking, 20 years plus.

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And I missed two days that I was hospitalized, and I mean I was drinking a lot.

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So there's a lot, a lot of of just ugliness that was wrapped up in this because at the very best, you're not present to participate in life or your relationships at the best.

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And, you know, as I over a little bit of time, as I sobered up and began my new life and thing, and I do thank God and horses for that in that order.

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I looked back and I, you know, we've all kind of said this a lot of times.

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I'm like, man, I wish I would have known this.

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And that right there is what inspired me, you know, this stable living coaching that I do, where I talk to teens and I talk to their parents, and some of them they're experiencing similar things that we kind of all go through and developing our identity of just feeling bad and knowing that that's okay is just a big thing, you know.

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So there's a long answer to your question.

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Yeah, no, I really appreciate that.

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And I appreciate the candor and the self-awareness that you have as you share.

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Because I think your story, like one of the things that I think, I mean, there's a lot of powerful aspects to it, but I think one of the things that's so powerful is the way you can reflect back and kind of see those significant moments where you're like, oh, I look back on this or I see this, and being able to reflect and then sit in it from the place you are now and share the wisdom that's come through that whole confluence of people and moments and God and horses and all those things coming together for you in ways that support the person you are now and the work you're able to now, I think is just such an incredible, incredible story that imbues any challenge with so much hope.

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Yeah, hope's a big thing.

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Because I think too, if we have people listening who are feeling like rock bottom or there's, you know, nowhere else we can go, having the space and time to look and be like, Well, this sounds familiar, right?

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I'm really resonating with what you're saying.

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There's hope.

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I could do something, right?

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There's there's options for me.

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And I think that that in and of itself is a gift, right?

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To just not feel that helpless feeling, like there's nothing else you can do, nowhere else you can go.

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Yeah, that's such a big thing.

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I mean, a lot of times it's not something that you learn in the normal course, and like you said, it can be so confusing and overwhelming.

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We don't know what to do or where to go and where to turn.

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A lot of times, just knowing that somebody's there with you to hear you and validate, and then also to be able to learn things.

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One of the big lessons that you're kind of talking about or that I was talking about, is that I really thought that the total goal of life was to feel good all the time.

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And I didn't know it was okay not to.

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So I was constantly, if everything just didn't feel good all the time, I was constantly just going for the good, and that's just not the way it is.

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And when you're avoiding feeling life is what that is, right?

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Buffering or doing all these activities.

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In my case, the biggest thing that I did was drinking for so many years to try to escape life because I just like you said, I didn't know I didn't know what to do with it.

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I didn't know what to do with what was going on inside of me here.

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Yeah, yeah.

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If you're listening, he just pointed to his head and to his heart.

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Yeah, no, and I think it's one of the reasons that I feel so strongly about mindfulness and the ability to sit in whatever emotion that we're in, you know, and just be present with it, right?

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And to have the tools and the support that we need, the confidence that we need to like, I can sit here for a minute, like I can feel this, right?

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I can I can sit with this.

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And I think when you don't have that orientation to life though, and you have a mass, a really big in my coaching, we call it a beach ball.

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You're shoving the emotion down so you don't have to feel it, and it's filling up this beach ball, right?

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And then at some points the beach ball pops up, and it's usually where you don't expect it.

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But as you're talking about in terms of buffering, the more we do that, like you mentioned in your story, the more we accumulate that we then have to sit with, right?

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So the burden of it only gets bigger the longer we kind of push off the willingness to feel.

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And one of the things that I think from what you shared that's so powerful is being able to sit with someone who has the self-awareness to kind of backtrack into all those moments and sit with you in those moments, right?

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Like you can accompany someone to a wide variety of places where they didn't show up maybe the way they wanted to.

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They weren't proud of how something turned out.

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They recognize that they're doing stuff that's hurting them, but they keep doing more just because sitting with that feeling is so uncomfortable.

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It it's not easy to do that.

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But in your coaching and in your work, you're able to sit with someone pretty much wherever they are, right?

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And I think that's the the power is your empathy in those moments to say, like, hey, I get it truly, right?

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Like I've been there, I get it.

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Yeah, I appreciate you.

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I appreciate your perspective.

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And you know, it is true that you know, just because my thing was drinking, the thing of it is is kind of like you're saying, part of this is just part of the be a human experience, you know, and there's so many things that we do that so many different activities.

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It doesn't have to be drinking, it can be a plethora of all these activities that we can do, everything from over media to over anything, over eating, over drinking, overworking, yep, over busy, over, you know.

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I tried that one too, you know.

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And so, yeah, there's so many things that we can do to push off.

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And so it's the same concept as yeah, no, for sure.

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I read a book, I can't remember the author it right now, but she was talking about how if we have that kind of addiction to numbing, that we will just transfer it, right?

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Until we can sit with it and kind of sort out where it's coming from and how to work with it, we'll shift and we may not do this thing anymore, but we just do this thing instead, and then this one and then this one.

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And I think that's such a powerful recognition that you just shared in terms of our humanity.

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That's a shared human trait, right?

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We can shift around all day long our focus and attention to avoid the thing that's nagging at us for some work.

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Okay, well, let's get into the part about horses because I feel like this is such a unique part of your story, and I just love this approach.

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So talk to us a little bit for context here about how horses played a role in your story, and then we'll get into the work that you do now and more the other things you've learned and been able to facilitate between humans and horses in the last while.

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Yeah, right.

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I'm sure.

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So, yeah, I mean, when I was a young kid, matter of fact, I was named after a Western movie called named Shane that came out in the 60s.

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My mom thought that that guy Alan Ladd and that movie was the greatest thing ever.

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So that's me.

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When I was a kid, I always wanted to be a cowboy and do all the cool things cowboys do.

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And I have done a lot of those things and had the opportunity to work with horses for my career for the last 30 years and doing lots of different things related in the horse industry.

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And horses are just these amazing, magnificent creatures, creation.

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I think they're like one of God's gifts.

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And you know, mostly what horses did for me is just kind of tend me.

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You know, I'm a farrier.

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So one of the things I do with horses is I deal with hoof care and putting shoes on horses' feet and all of that.

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Well, let me just tell you, if you're not familiar with that type of activity, it can be extremely dangerous.

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Now, when you're drinking and you involve that, it's just dangerous.

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You know, I think God and Horses just basically tended me or babysat me until I could come to a realization.

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There was one time where I thought that a horse talked to me, but that could have been the alcohol or God, I don't know.

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But mainly I was just kind of with horses and they kind of gave me comfort and got me through until I could see that I needed to make that change.

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And when I look at horses in my stable living coaching, we use horses.

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Basically, we just demonstrate the principles.

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My coaching virtual, occasionally we have a live event where we actually use horses to demonstrate these ideas, which is a lot of fun.

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But horses really can just, I don't know, they're innocent and they're noble and yet they don't roll over.

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There's just like so many ways that horses are that apply to human relationships.

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And so that's kind of what I do.

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Yeah, thank you.

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And then uh one of the things, too, I was reading, it wasn't even necessarily your preparation for this, but my eyes perked up when I saw it just because I knew we had this conversation coming up.

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Just a story about the therapeutic nature of horses.

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It was in the reader's digest, and just talking about how the sensory nature of horses is so powerful.

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Can you speak to that a little bit?

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In the article, they were just talking about their interactions with the horses that allowed them to notice things about themselves, like you're describing, that were kind of concealed to them before, but the horse reflecting back like the energy they were bringing, or the horse reflecting back just the interaction is what taught them so much about themselves.

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Yeah, that's a great one right there.

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That horses are used in so many different kinds of therapy, and I'm not sure what all the magic is.

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And it does sometimes it really does seem like magic.

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I don't know that what you feel and what you receive, but what you're talking about, I think is more of a concrete thing that I also talk about a lot.

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And that is that so horses are so reactive.

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When you come into the barn or when you come into proximity with another, with a horse, you know, they're not gonna say, hey, you kind of seem like you got something going on there.

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Is everything okay?

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You know, they can't really communicate like that.

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So that, but they're totally cueing in on everything.

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Okay.

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I mean, if you come to the barn and it's like, well, I got a secret and I'll just keep it under my hat today.

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I mean, the word is out the moment you show up, you know, everybody knows what there ain't no secrets in the barn.

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So and because horses, because they need to be just because of the nature of their, you know, they're a prey animal and so they're just totally cued in of all their senses on what they're perceiving.

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And like you said, as they mirror that, okay.

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So for example, if I come up to this horse and I'm like, oh man, I'm afraid.

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I wonder if it's gonna kick me or whatever, more than likely what they're thinking is like, wow, something's really wrong here.

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I can sense that that being senses something's wrong.

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What is it?

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You know, and then they kind of create the reality that something is wrong and to be afraid of.

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And so that's just one example of fear or lack of confidence.

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If we're angry, if we're just feeling content and peaceful, they know that also.

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And just being able to see that being reflected back to you, to me, that, you know, a lot of times we think that we're not really influencing the world around us, man.

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I'm telling you, when when it is so evident in horses, but the truth is the same thing is happening with people.

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They might not be quite as perceptive in some things, but everything that inside of us is coming out, and we're influencing everyone.

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And so, yeah, that's a big thing right there.

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Yeah.

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No, I love the way you described that.

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I think especially how you said speaking with our energy.

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As humans, we often use our words to communicate, but with horses being able to interpret energy and the energy bring to an interaction or just spring into a space.

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I walk my dogs near the house, and there are quite a few horse properties nearby.

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There's this one fence we usually stop at.

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One of my dogs, she's super friendly with the horse.

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The horse will canter up and even sometimes just gallop over.

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When this one dog comes to the fence, my other dog is a little more reactive and just like a little more intense.

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So if that dog is close to the fence, the horse is more hesitant and a little bit, doesn't come running over.

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But it's really, it's been so curious to me to see these two animals like engaged with each other because you know they're not communicating in any other way but their energy.

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But they have this really sweet relationship, like they'll just go nose to nose against this chain-link fence, you know, when they're over there together.

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And this one dog, she just has this fun, playful, just kind of goofy energy, and the horse just seems to gravitate to it.

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It's just fun for me to witness.

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So I have a reference point there.

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That's a great observation.

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There's a parallel there because, you know, what's inside of that one dog, and this is not making judgment on either dog because who knows what's going on inside.

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But as far as making a connection, what's going on inside with the one that's coming up and going nose to nose, and there's a reason why the other one isn't, right?

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And that that's because of what's going on and they can feel and is being communicated.

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And, you know, really that's if we want to communicate with people, just being intentional about what's inside of us is pretty powerful.

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Yeah, no, I love that correlation.

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Thank you.

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So let's talk now in more detail about just horses in general.

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So, like when a horse is facing a challenge, how do they manage that?

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Yeah.

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I'll take it one step further and they'll give a specific type of challenge.

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I'll just make this parallel about forgiveness.

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And so man and woman with a horse, we'll call that a relationship.

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And we'll then we'll draw the parallel of uh human beings to human beings.

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So now, enter I into with the horse.

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Okay.

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So as human beings and horses in this relationship, because of the nature of human beings and horses, I'm gonna make a mistake.

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So I'm gonna probably do something over the course of this thing that's gonna be unfair.

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So now this horse has a challenge.

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What is he going to do about this thing that I'm doing, right?

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That he either doesn't understand.

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And let's just say that I'm doing the best I can over here, because two things are most likely that happened.

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Either I am trying to communicate something or I'm giving this horse something that he can't understand, and I think that he can, so I'm doing my best intent, and it doesn't matter which one it is in this example, my emotions took over and I reacted and I did something that's unfair.

00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:30.559
Okay.

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.559
Either way, the horse is perceiving it as he doesn't understand and something's wrong.

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.640
He's faced with this challenge, like, what am I gonna do now with you?

00:18:41.200 --> 00:19:00.880
And so if we on one side of this recognize that if we come to recognize that we were either unfair for whatever reason, either because we didn't know or we just lost it for a minute, whatever, then, you know, as long as we continue to do that, we're gonna get the same reaction from the horse.

00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:10.400
In other words, he's not gonna just say, well, go ahead and, you know, I'm gonna accept all this, I'm gonna roll over, I'm gonna lay down, chain, and you're gonna drive over me, you know, every time you come by.

00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.759
That ain't happening, right?

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.920
He's not, he's gonna have a boundary, he's not gonna accept that.

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.079
There's gonna be, we're gonna have a conflict.

00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.680
Have to sort it, yeah.

00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.559
Yeah.

00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:29.359
So if I can come to the place, and let's just say in my example, that I realized that that horse couldn't either understand or what that I did is unfair to start with.

00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:30.640
And so now I'm gonna change it.

00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:32.640
Okay, I'm gonna change this behavior.

00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:39.039
So I come back to the horse the next day, and he's expecting the same thing, right?

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.000
So he's already anticipating and preparing for the same thing that I have been doing.

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.400
Maybe it's a cue to I don't know what.

00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.160
It's just something that's not working.

00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.359
So he's anticipating this, but I do something different.

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.720
And let's just say in this example, he deems it, judges it to be fair, andor he understands it.

00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:06.400
And so he Looks at it, he hesitates, he digests, and then he moves forward and kind of comes together and solves this conflict.

00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.480
About the next day, he's anticipating less.

00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.079
And once he sees that trust, it repairs so fast.

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.960
The speed of trust of horses is incredible.

00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.599
Even if you would look back and say, I can't believe I did that.

00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.519
How did I expect him to believe this?

00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.039
Or that was so unfair.

00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.160
I lost my patience.

00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:30.079
But here's the thing it only takes about three times or three days-ish, depending on the level of whatever.

00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:30.559
Okay.

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:32.559
And that thing's gone.

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.359
I mean, there is no trace, there's no residue, there's no evidence.

00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:43.440
That horse is not in the back of his mind thinking, this is that guy that did that thing.

00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:53.039
And you know it's gone because there would be some evidence of something lurking around the corner that would surface back up somewhere in this relationship.

00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:54.559
And it doesn't.

00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.000
They fully accept the change and they take it.

00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.519
Now, like I said, you can't just do whatever you want and it's okay all the time.

00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.640
That's not what I'm saying.

00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:09.200
I'm saying when you change and they accept that change, which happens fast, that when it's gone, it's gone.

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.359
I really like this one with horses.

00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:30.240
When you can see that and have it demonstrated, even in a small way, not that we do things unfair to a horse to demonstrate, but when you see what they will accept just because of our imperfections, that when you see them accept that and the resilience that they have and then the forgiveness of never bringing it up again in the future, it's incredible.

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.920
You know, that right there, that's just a big one.

00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:34.640
Yeah.

00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.000
Yeah, that's really beautiful.

00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:57.200
And so you're saying you compare that to like a relationship where maybe a man and a woman are in a relationship and they're having some conflict and then they're, you know, like maybe it keeps getting stirred up even if it's resolved, you're saying this is this is kind of like a model we can take to work through conflict in a more forgiving or accepting way.

00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.319
I'm saying that.

00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:04.559
I'm saying that if I can take that behavior that somebody did to me and move it over there and say, you did that behavior.

00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.480
However, I'm fully accepting you as a human being and I'm gonna let it go.

00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:10.160
I'm gonna fully let it go.

00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.880
I'm just gonna let it go because I don't know, my kind of default has been in relationships.

00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.759
If I'm not careful, I'm gonna bring up that past, which is not helpful, by the way.

00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.119
It didn't help me on my side either, even though I thought it would.

00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:30.079
But it's something that I think if we're not intentional about fully letting go and making meaning, what does that mean about me?

00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.480
What is that thing that you did to me, Lindsay?

00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.279
What does that mean about me and what am I gonna do with it?

00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:44.000
Can I take a look and say, okay, you did something that I'm not gonna say you are something, but you did something that wasn't fair to me.

00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:51.920
And I'm gonna say that you did that action and I'm not gonna like it, and I'm not gonna accept it, and I'm not gonna roll over, and it's not okay that you did it.

00:22:52.160 --> 00:23:00.480
However, I'm gonna fully push that aside and I'm gonna fully accept you a hundred percent if I so choose to do so.

00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:01.599
Yeah.

00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.519
No, I think that's super powerful.

00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:12.720
And again, just in my simple example of dogs and horses between the fence, I've seen that where if it's been a couple days since my one dog got feisty, I'll see the horse give her a chance.

00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:18.160
And if she's over by the fence, she'll come over and start sniffing around, and the horse will come over a little more hesitant.

00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:24.799
But if it's been a while since she's barked at her, then the horse will come over and be open and willing to engage.

00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.400
Usually the other dog will bark and then we go back.

00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:34.880
But I am surprised routinely about the number of chances that my one dog gets, who tends to be a little more feisty.

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.000
So I totally have a small example of seeing that in action.

00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:43.680
And I do think it's incredible to just appreciate the presence that that takes.

00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:50.160
Because again, it's like the horse knows if there's something off energetically.

00:23:50.720 --> 00:24:03.279
And so you're saying like reading the room, being really present in the moment that you're in allows you to make those kind of judgment calls and to say, like, this is not a moment I need to be concerned about that, and I'm gonna let it go.

00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:08.400
I'm not gonna bring it into this moment because this moment has its own unique qualities.

00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:13.519
You nail that horses are fully in the moment, fully immersed in the moment.

00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:14.559
Yeah.

00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:15.119
Yeah.

00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.839
I love that.

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:17.279
Okay, let's go to another one.

00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.960
Let's talk a little more about communication.

00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:25.279
We've touched on this in generally, but like what if there's a lack of communication, like the horse doesn't know what you want to think.

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.319
This has some great correlations to relationships, also.

00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:30.880
But what does the horse do in those moments?

00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:31.920
Yeah.

00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:34.720
With parents, unity is important.

00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:38.079
That means that what we're communicating to our kids is the same.

00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:45.680
That's a big parallel with horses, because if they're getting different messages from different people that they don't understand the way the world works.

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.960
And, you know, neither do our kids in that example.

00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.680
But basic communication is with a horse is the same as it is with human beings.

00:24:53.759 --> 00:25:02.400
It's just so evident and easy to see with horses because what happens is when I communicate something to you, okay.

00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.799
Let's just say I'm asking you to do something.

00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.519
I'm asking you to do this, and you're not doing it.

00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:11.359
Why aren't you doing it?

00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:17.920
And I'm just, I keep asking you and asking you, and I'm gonna escalate how I'm asking you, and I'm gonna increase the pressure.

00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:24.079
I'm gonna continue to increase the pressure, and I'm doing everything I can, and now I'm gonna force you to do this if you're not careful.

00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:52.799
What's happening is if you're not understanding me, you know, first of all, I'm already starting to get frustrated because I'm asking you, I'm doing everything I can to respectfully ask you to comply and to come my way, and you're not doing anything, and it's getting pretty frustrating over here, and you're on the other end over there, your frustration is going up just as much because you're seeing that you're like, you're doing this, and then you're why are you doing all that?

00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.160
You know, I'm over here trying to figure this thing out and nothing's working.

00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.759
And so these things, I mean, with horses, this is when you want to have 911 ready to dial on your phone.

00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:17.920
Because what happens is as things escalate in this communication, in this lack of communication, and the frustration increases is where, you know, horses are either going to run over you on a way to get away or to lash out and fight and hurt you.

00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.759
I mean, in an extreme case.

00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:28.319
But the basic idea is that I'm talking about in communication, it's just so frustrating when we're not intentional with communication for both sides of the party.

00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:33.279
And so we really have to look at first of all, are you understanding me?

00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.319
And if not, in the horse world, this is interesting.

00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:41.519
There's an old school of thought that says if you're in the middle of it, you can't give up, or you know, you'll ruin everything.

00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.160
You have to win the battle if you created one.

00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.359
That's the worst idea ever.

00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:47.920
Okay.

00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.799
I think that goes for kids too.

00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:52.559
For sure.

00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.599
The time to stop is now regroup.

00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:02.960
Take yourself out of that position and think it through, then you can go back with a different communication that hopefully it will be understood.

00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:03.839
Yeah.

00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:05.680
No, I think that's really powerful.

00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.319
There's the, you know, the visual of that.

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:13.519
Like if you're again with horses, how many commands can horses generally recognize?

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:24.400
Like words-wise, are there things you're saying that they're connecting with, or is it mostly body language and touch, or you know, let's go a little deeper there because I feel like there's some gems.

00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:28.400
Yeah, there's how much can horses understand?

00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:29.119
They can, I don't know.

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:32.720
Verbal, verbally, like in your experience.

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.559
They can understand quite a bit if we condition them to.

00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.960
I only use a handful of sounds.

00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:48.000
A kiss, a kick, a click, and whoa, they understand that word, and you know, walk on.

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.480
I only use a handful of verbal cues.

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:59.839
I would imagine that if you intended to, that they could pick up on, understand a lot of different kinds of verbal language, but I use those specifically.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:07.759
I know with dogs that a lot of times they teach dogs different languages so they don't get confused in your, you know, what you're trying to ask them to do.

00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:09.200
And so I don't know.

00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:16.799
I have kept over my scope of things that at a minimum, but horses, they're picking up on everything, you know.

00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:24.799
So we condition them to certain verbal cues and then certain body language that we're doing.

00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.160
And then, like when we're riding, they feel everything.

00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:33.839
This is kind of interesting that a horse, let's just say an average horse is 1,000 pounds.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:34.319
Okay.

00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.799
So that's a pretty big creature, a thousand pounds.

00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:56.240
And from the tip of their nose to the back of their tailbone, they can feel a little bitty gnat or a little bitty fly through their hair coat anywhere on their body.

00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:56.720
Okay.

00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:04.480
And so when you add a saddle and a rider, me, a human being up there flopping around, let me tell you, they feel everything.

00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:06.079
Yeah.

00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:06.799
Okay.

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:17.279
I feel like there was so much in there that correlates because I think that especially for those of us who may have kids who tend toward more sensitive natures.

00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:24.160
And I know we have quite a few listeners who would identify as like parents of kids who are pretty sensitive.

00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:36.400
I think what you said about the looks you might have, your body language and your words having just as much communication, right, as those words, those other signals to kids are pretty big.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.319
And sometimes they come through stronger, right, than what we say.

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:55.839
So even if we're saying we're okay or we're saying things are okay or we're not upset, if they're reading the other parts of us, if they're like reading the energy that we're putting out, if we're they're reading our, you know, facial cues or our body language, they're gonna be picking up what we're throwing down, right?

00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.240
Like whatever it is we're bringing to the interaction, they're gonna pick up on.

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:05.279
And I think that circles back to your idea earlier of kind of minding your energy, right?

00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.200
Like minding your own bearing and how you're coming to a situation.

00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:27.039
And then I also think just the idea of having a few key phrases or sounds that you use, not that we want to call to our kids like we call for horses, maybe, but I know people, especially myself, I can get pretty verbose, believe it or not, when it comes to my kiddo.

00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:48.720
And I'll tell a story or share a concept in a lot of words that sometimes start to get lost because we're kind of done listening to the words, and you know, whereas having like a few key things that we can refer to or connect with that that speak more, I think that that's powerful.

00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:54.480
And I know for me in our mindfulness conversations, that's one of the reasons I love stories.

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.200
Listeners will recognize the idea of the thought river.

00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:07.359
So if in a moment with my kiddo, I can say instead of giving a big long spiel about how I don't know that that's a thought we should pay attention to and it's not really true.

00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:18.240
And I wish you would think better about yourself, or I wish you wouldn't be so hard on yourself, you know, I could go off and say all those things, or I can say something like, is that something you could let float down your thought river?

00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:28.480
And it's a small reference, kind of like your, you know, the the noises that you made or the the small ways you signal to the horse, but it's a small reference that carries a lot of weight.

00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:39.279
And so being able to have those tools and strategies at our disposal as parents is so important because we can convey a whole lot with just a tiny bit.

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:43.759
I absolutely love that because that is super powerful.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:55.599
If I have a comment, I don't think that a lot of times my complete analysis over you know exactly over about a half hour is just not gonna be helpful.

00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:02.640
And so a friend of mine, his wife used to say like if you ask Mike what time it is, he'll tell you how a watch works.

00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.400
I mean, especially with kids, that's a great thought.

00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:11.359
I love it.

00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.400
Thanks.

00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:19.359
I think too, I like what you said about the horse's sensitivity and maybe taking it in different vein.

00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:28.640
Like as parents, parents who are listening, caring an awful lot, and you generally notice what's going on with kids, right?

00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:34.640
And all those tiny, like you said, the gnat or the fly or the heavier burden of a person sitting on the horse.

00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:42.240
I think as parents, too, being patient and having compassion and just good self-care, because we are shouldering all those things, right?

00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:57.680
Like we are sensitive to the different needs of our kids, the different struggles of our kids, whether it's the tiny little things or the more weighty things that they're navigating, like recognizing the weight of responsibility that we carry for them, it's important, right?

00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:09.680
Like with for a horse, you're not asking the horse to kind of go longer than it can or carry that burden farther than it's able, or to do so without the proper nourishment or care or equipment or whatever, right?

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:23.920
And in that way, I think too, as parents, we need to avail ourselves of the support of the just compassionate self-care that's required in order to carry the weight of child rearing.

00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:40.799
I have a comment on that, and I couldn't agree with you more because what I took out of that is that is one of really what I would like to say to most parents and to my younger self is that it is a lot of responsibility and it is a lot of weight.

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:47.039
And sometimes it can feel just too much, you know, it can just feel overbearing.

00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.359
And the parents that I talk to, they're doing the best that they can.

00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:59.599
The thing of it is, is it's like the default language is I suck as a parent because I did or didn't do a certain thing.

00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:12.800
And really that we care so much that we make one, the everything that we do, we're hyper focused in on and we're damaging ourselves internally and emotionally because of the way that we're thinking about it.

00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.239
And sometimes we even think that we're doing a good thing.

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:27.199
In other words, well, I'm taking ownership of it, and you know, it's a good idea to think that I'm an idiot for what I've been doing because, you know, I don't want to do it again, and I'm the responsible one.

00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.639
And I'm telling you, it's the opposite.

00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:33.760
I want parents to know what you're talking about.

00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:48.239
You're gonna make some mistakes, and it's okay because those beliefs and those ideas and those thoughts and those words that you're thinking about the mistakes that you're making, they're coming out and you're teaching your kids things that you don't want to have happen.

00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:53.920
It just like they come out, your kids are picking it up whether you know it or not, just like horses do.

00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:04.639
I want human beings and parents especially, just to more intentionally take a look at those thoughts that they're having about themselves and the words that they're using around their kids and have it be okay.

00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:06.559
I mean, you're gonna make some mistakes.

00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:08.400
It's gonna be that way.

00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:17.519
But that's the first thing I hear when I talk to parents is just all this self-belittling and criticizing and condemning and on and on.

00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:18.559
Yeah.

00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:29.440
Yeah, I'm really glad you pointed that out because I think it's a really powerful observation that when we are struggling, especially with something that feels as crucial to us as our kids, right?

00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:31.440
I mean, it's the job we care about so much.

00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:43.039
And when we are struggling, we are often looking for support, but being so mean to ourselves and not giving ourselves kind of internal support that you're speaking of.

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:48.960
One of my favorite mindfulness exercises or meditations is the loving-kindness meditation.

00:35:49.119 --> 00:36:10.960
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but the idea is that you imagine yourself first and then you imagine people around you who just love you so much and are just sending you love, just sending it, and you imagine yourself like filling up with it, and you just feel so cared for and so loved that it's like overflowing out of you.

00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:22.559
And then from there, the meditation continues and you send that love to someone that you love, someone that's neutral to you, someone who you have some sort of conflict or disagreement with, and then to the world.

00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:30.639
But the idea is that you're so full of love, you're so full of goodness and like that just care for yourself that it's overflowing out of you.

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.480
And I think when we're struggling, it is really tricky to come by those types of feelings, right?

00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.960
And we end up parenting from a lack instead of an overflow of love.

00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:48.800
And it it sounds trite, but really the way that we consider ourselves and the way that we care for ourselves is what creates that circumstance, right?

00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:54.880
Whether we feel full of that kind of care or whether we feel like we're lacking it and kind of scrounging for it.

00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:09.519
And so I love what you said because I think it speaks to the realization that we do our best as parents, even when we're making mistakes, when we can foster that kind of self-compassion that's needed just for ourselves, because then it flows from us outward.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.000
Yep, that's exactly right.

00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.239
I love that idea.

00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:15.360
Super good.

00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:18.639
Most of my work's with teenagers and parents, but just one example.

00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.519
I have a couple of parents that have younger kids too.

00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:34.960
And one lady was telling me a story recently about how she has this newborn, and she set her down on the bed and turned to get some clothes out of the dresser, and she rolled over and hit the ground.

00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.320
And she was like traumatized over this.

00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:39.360
The mother, okay.

00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:40.559
The baby was okay.

00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:43.519
You know, luckily, baby not harmed, everything's okay.

00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.480
But the mother was, it's a big deal.

00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:50.320
I mean, she was making some serious meaning about this whole thing.

00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:55.760
And the thing of it is, is this the infant may or may not have been old enough to really pick up.

00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:59.599
She did pick up on her initial reaction and it made her cry more.

00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.559
But our kids are, it's not trite.

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.880
I mean, these things mean things.

00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:12.320
Our thoughts and the language that we have about our thoughts and our for sure our language because our kids are picking up on.

00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:17.519
They are learning how to treat themselves by the way that we treat themselves from what they hear.

00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:23.519
A lot of times we parent less because we isolate, we kind of move away if we feel bad about ourselves.

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:27.280
There's so many things that are having a direct impact.

00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.119
I mean, it matters.

00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:29.920
Yeah.

00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:31.760
I know thanks for sharing that.

00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:46.639
I think one of the most poignant quotes that I've heard about that is the way that you talk to yourself in a mistake is going to be the way that your child talks to themselves, you know, next week or 20 years from now in a mistake.

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.920
So you're using the language with yourself that you want them to use for themselves.

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.760
Like that's the kind of training that we're doing as parents.

00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:02.000
We're modeling what a mistake means and how we should treat ourselves after a mistake.

00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:10.800
And so if we can have the kind of compassion and the grace that we want them to have for themselves, like we've got to model it first so that they didn't know what it looks like.

00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:12.079
For sure.

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:18.880
Well, and then just to bring that full circle, what do you see, like in terms of horses?

00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.800
How do you correlate there?

00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:27.679
In terms of a situation where you might feel shame or you might feel like you've done something wrong, or there's like an awareness.

00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:37.840
Do you see that same kind of rebound as with the forgiveness that we talked about earlier, where they can just be present in this new moment that they're in after they've prepared?

00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:40.079
Two things on that.

00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:45.599
And one is that you kind of touched on a little bit, but everything matters to start with.

00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.079
Just know everything matters.

00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:53.039
When you come into it, depends on what size of like an enclosure a horse is in.

00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:58.880
If a horse is in a smaller enclosure, you can be a little bit closer before they really start to hone in on you.

00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:10.079
But if a horse is Turned out into big pasture, they can be a long ways away, like more than 100 yards or plus, you know, and they can start to really pick up on what you're putting down.

00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:20.880
And so in a stall in a barn, and you know, there's so much activity and stuff like that that you would need to be closer, like you'd need to be within 10 feet of their stall, depending on whatever.

00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:26.880
So when you come into proximity with the horse, everything you do makes a difference.

00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.239
Everything.

00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.480
And here's an example of this.

00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:35.440
At our barn or any barn, the stall cleaner makes a difference.

00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.360
He goes in there and cleans the stall.

00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.599
He picks up the manure and checks the bedding and checks the water and whatever he does.

00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.559
The stall cleaner impacts that horse's life.

00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:50.719
It impacts how he's going to ride, how he's going to interact with the owner, with the groom, whoever comes to pick him up.

00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:52.719
Everything matters, literally.

00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.800
So just know that, just to start with.

00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.159
That's a concept I fully believe in in his lifetime.

00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.440
A lot of times I think like, oh, it's just this little thing or that.

00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:03.199
And we need to prioritize things.

00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:08.480
That's not what I'm saying, but I'm just saying that everything really does, everything matters.

00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:21.679
And then kind of like back what you said is that when, you know, as far as shame horses just being able to be present and really the miracle that they don't hold on to things and remember things is really the miracle.

00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:26.559
And I don't know for sure what goes on inside their head, but I know for sure that they don't remember.

00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:43.599
And I don't know that they can fully separate actions from the value of a human being, which is one thing that I really talk a lot about, of being able to do for ourselves because that gives us the capacity to do that for other people, for our kids, and for all our human beings.

00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.760
And then it starts right here.

00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:53.280
But one thing for sure is again, I just think it's such a big idea that really it starts with ourselves.

00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:56.000
This idea of forgiveness and fully letting it go.

00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:02.159
If we can develop the capacity, and what it is possible to do, trust me, because I've done some stuff.

00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.039
Okay, we're not going to talk about all of it right now.

00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.880
Okay, but we all have, you know, to some degree that I'm ashamed of.

00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.519
So we all get to experience this shame, right?

00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.440
It's part of, again, human, our life experience.

00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.519
These things really do define us.

00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:22.159
And if you don't think you're defined, if you're not intentional about it, it's happening for you anyway.

00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.280
And probably it's not turning out as good as it could if you're not being intentional about it.

00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:35.920
If we can really come to know that the things that we have done go through the process, Bernane Brown has a great shame and resilience, you know, steps to go through.

00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:55.519
If we can own it, if we can share it with people that have earned our trust, and then if we can at some point separate it from our value as who we are worth as a human being, and fully let it go, feel it, and move on without having residue, I think is a worthy goal.

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:56.719
Yeah.

00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:58.159
That's so well put.

00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.360
And I I love Brene Brown for that reason.

00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:16.320
I think, yeah, I I love what you shared in terms of the way we connect with ourselves being the template for which both our kids learn to connect with themselves and for the way that we create the relationship with them.

00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:22.880
And when you say care about everything, I think I can hear some listeners having some anxiety about that and feeling stressed.

00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:30.000
But I think the key being there really are just a few basics that we can kind of build on, right?

00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:37.599
This idea of self-compassion, this idea of our worth not changing and our worth being constant no matter what.

00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:45.519
If we can build there, then all those minutes that do matter, they're a little smoother, right?

00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.480
Because what we've built inside of us creates a different kind of approach.

00:43:50.639 --> 00:44:00.320
And I think if we're so busy like listening to this person's take or wanting to do the exact right thing in this situation, or you know, like trying to figure out the words in this situation.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:08.079
And if we are just trying to scramble and kind of tie together those things in each of those moments, it's really challenging.

00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:24.480
But when we can take that mindful and intentional approach with the self-compassion and with that strong tether to our worth, those moments are, I'm not gonna say they're easy, but there's an ease to the moment when that's the basis from which you're approaching it.

00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.280
Yeah.

00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:26.880
Great, that's awesome.

00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:27.920
I agree with you.

00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:40.480
That may have came out like, oh man, I have more things to worry about because my point of everything mattering, but really at the core, horses are super resilient, and our kids are actually more resilient than we think.

00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:46.000
And I think really what matters, when I say everything matters, we're gonna make mistakes, and that's gonna matter.

00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:50.880
What matters most is what we model of how we handle those mistakes.

00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:51.840
So yeah.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.360
Yeah, I think it's a good point.

00:44:53.440 --> 00:45:02.400
And I think that again, this idea of being able to sit with whatever comes up for us, whatever we're feeling, whatever our kiddo is feeling, those are the things that matter.

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:14.079
And when we do from that foundation, we cannot expect perfection from ourselves, but dive into that idea of resilience that you shared and build that sense of resilience within ourselves and our kids one moment at a time.

00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:15.119
For sure.

00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.760
Well, Shane, thank you so much for your time today.

00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:19.360
This has been such a fun conversation.

00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:23.119
Talk to our listeners about where they can learn more about you and your work.

00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:24.320
Oh, thanks so much.

00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:27.760
Everything we do do is at Stable Living Coaching.com.

00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:32.400
I have a free weekly video that you can sign up for if you're inclined.

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:33.920
Thank you so much.

00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:35.920
Yeah, thanks again.

00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:38.960
Thanks for listening to the Stress Nanny.

00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:44.639
If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to share it with a friend who could use a little extra calm in their week.

00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.280
And if you have a minute, I'd love for you to leave a review.

00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.639
It helps other parents find the show and join us on this journey.

00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:55.840
For more tools and support, head over to www.thestressnanny.com.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.079
Remember, you don't have to do stress alone.

00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:02.239
Together we can raise kids who know how to navigate life with confidence and ease.

00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.679
Until next time, take a deep breath and give yourself some grace.