How do I handle my child's risky behavior?

Lindsay Miller  0:22  
Hey there. This is Lindsay. This episode is full of insights. I will say that we do cover some pretty deep topics, I want to let you know that we're going to talk a little bit about suicide, reckless behavior and addiction. And Aaron who is my guest, and he's going to walk us through what to do when you face those moments as a parent or a caregiver and how to approach the situation from a place of balance and steadiness. His insights are really useful for anyone though his parenting and communication skills and the texting techniques that he uses, are effective in any parenting situation. Thanks for being here, and I hope that you find this episode insightful. 

Before we get started, I'll let you know that the episode is sponsored by the essential calendar, which is a great way for families to stay organized, you can have a three month view of your family's activities and keep everybody on the same page literally. You can find it at www.thecentralcalendar.com. And now on to the episode. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller and I'm delighted that you're here to join a conversation today with Aaron Huey. Aaron is the founder of Parenting Teens That Struggle and he's the host of the number one parenting podcast Beyond Risk and Back, which is Mental Health News Radio network's highest rated show internationally. He's also a parent coach for parents of kids at risk a Teen Addiction interventionist, and he facilitates powerful parenting events. He's also a very happy husband and father of two young adults. He's an internationally known lecturer on archetypal imagery, body language and martial arts and the founder and president of Fire Mountain programs. Since 2004, he's run kids camps, teen camps and family programming. In 2009, he and his wife Christine opened a residential mental health and dependency recovery treatment center for teens ages 12 to 17. In Colorado, Fire Mountain residential treatment center was in 2019, named one of the top 50 healthcare providers in the United States. And in 2020, named one of the top 100 innovators in healthcare. Aaron, this is going to be such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining me.

Aaron Huey  2:35  
Well, thanks for reading that I'd love to meet this guy. I'm not sure I believe that.

Lindsay Miller  2:42  
I know sometimes with intros, it can be challenging, right? Because it's a long list, but yours, I feel like is so it just brings us really to the point of this conversation real quick, right? You care about kids, and you especially care about kids who are high risk.

Aaron Huey  2:59  
I do. And I have found that the number one way to support kids who are high risk making very risky decisions, and finding themselves in more and more dangerous conditions is to intervene with the parents. Because even if the child changes, even if the kid goes to the high quality treatment center or whatever, if the child comes home and the home environment has not changed, if the home environment has not gone into recovery, the child will revert. It's like raising your kids speaking Spanish and then sending them to a French school. They learn how to exist in the French school, they speak French, they learn the culture, when they come home, they're gonna go back to Spanish. Like that's just the nature that's human nature. So our success as a treatment facility, which I closed 32 days ago, by the way. But our success with the treatment facility didn't come from the work we did with kids. We did amazing work with kids. It came from the work and our successful parents. That's where our success really came from. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  4:15  
So and this is something that I think is so important to drive home because when we invest in treatment facilities, I mean, that is a significant cost, right? And so what you're seeing right here is, you know, in those moments that habituated patterns are the stressors or the triggers that are in the home environment. If they're not addressed, then that money maybe wasn't spent the most efficaciously

Aaron Huey  4:41  
let's say it straight out. Okay, you wasted your money. Well, you like you and I and in working with 1000s of kids and 1000s of parents in the last 20 years. What I want to do next is help parents keep their kids out of treatment. The average rate covery rate for a treatment center is 12%. That's an average. And we are talking 10s to hundreds of 1000s of dollars of care. Now, having run a treatment facility, I understand where this money goes, and I can promise you guys it did not go into my pocket. It went in. I mean, I had doctors working for me, I had nurses working for me 24 hour staff. Feeding my staff alone was $50,000 a year, like these are expensive programs. But let's also increase the pain point of this expense. Treatment is expensive, financially, but also mentally, and emotionally and spiritually. And physically, this is a taxing process, because by the time you get to the place where you need treatment for your child, the entire family is traumatized, the entire family needs treatment, the entire family needs to go into recovery. So if we're going to keep kids out of treatment, then that means parents have to do what would be expected of them, if they went to a treatment program that had the expectations of those parents that we did it ours.

Lindsay Miller  6:12  
That's a really powerful way of looking at it. And I appreciate the perspective that you share around the whole family needing support that it's not, you know, like you said, when it gets to that point, there's not one isolated individual, they're impacted by their behavior. And by the dependency or whatever it it will get into those different conditions. But there's not just one person that it's it's swirling through everybody and their experience. And so being able to implement shifts in the family environment that allow recovery for everyone that's powerful.

Aaron Huey  6:44  
It really is the most common mistake that parents of children who are in treatment, or who need treatment have made is that the child has become the patient of the family. Another term for it is we make them the black sheep of the family, right. But in a truer sense, the parents have become caretakers, they are now suffering from caretakers burden. For a child who has become the focal point, and the only source of happiness, sadness frustration. In the family, we get into what we call the if that which is the last leg of the limbic brains ability. If my child made different choices, then I could be happy. If my child stopped using cannabis, then we wouldn't find if my child would find their way out of depression. Then I the moment we're in an if then, it is literally pulled all the signposts that the child's behavior, which is the language of the family, that the child's behavior is running the house, the child's crisis out of control. Dysfunctional nervous system is still the strongest nervous system in the family. The moment that this child is, something's happened. I've never not worked with a kid who's dealing with drugs, video games self harm, who hasn't experienced trauma, not one, I want to make that clear. 20 years, I've looked not one. Even the kids who have the genetic three dial down for addiction, there's trauma, every single one. So something terrible has happened, the dragon has invaded the village, the computer system has been hacked, and this child has lost their innocence. Now, their behavior is a desperate maladaptive pattern condition to try to get needs met. And it's, quite frankly, let's let's be clear, destroying the family. And so we focus on the child we focused on the child's behavior. If they would only then the rest of us could. And now we've handed all the power of happiness, responsibility and normalcy over to a child that will never no one. Nobody could hear what I just said. And say, Well, yeah, that makes sense. The child has to change, especially if the child has attempted suicide has Odede has stolen the car has called Child Protective Services on you and pulled them a lie. Oh, my God, the stories keep going. But this has traumatized you. So if you're not in recovery, how can you show your child how to embrace?

Unknown Speaker  9:34  
Yeah, he's so powerful.

Lindsay Miller  9:38  
That perspective and it just makes it just drives it home. Right? It just brings everything into clear focus. Like if you have a nervous system that is out of whack and it is the one driving every interaction in the family, curtailing resources of time, energy and money like that that nervous system is kind of a runaway train until the other nervous systems around them are in a position to recalibrate, and offer up some co regulation so that there can be recovery and healing.

Aaron Huey  10:09  
Have you ever been on the airport shuttle and somebody gets on who's totally beside themselves about missing our flight? And everybody's relaxed their talk and they're checking out each other's shoes or coats or luggage or whatever? And then someone gets on the porch. So it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Oh, my God, I can't miss pretty soon everybody's checking their watch. Oh, my God, am I gonna miss my flight? I'm six hours early. Was that early enough that did I mistake that a check in their tickets. The third and fourth time, the strongest nervous system wins. I didn't say healthiest. I said strongest. And if you take your kids video game system away, you shut off the internet because they've lied, stolen, sneaking, cheating, breaking the law using it, you're like, nope, gets my value system. And you shut it down. And they call you names you didn't know they knew. And they kick a hole in the wall and stomp off to their room and you go into talk and they're screaming at you. And you're like, where did my child go? And who is this demon? They have the strongest nervous system. And in that moment, if a stranger on a bus can make us check our watch and our tickets, even though we know imagine that your child could do to you. And a lot of people who are listening don't have to imagine they know, forest for the trees. You're lost. And you need support to.

Unknown Speaker  11:30  
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  11:35  
So what behind the behavior you talk a lot about why kids do what they do. And so we touched on that in terms of trauma right now. What are some of the ways that you see kids like trying to communicate with this behavior? So like, let's get clear on that. And then let's go into and then how do we change the environment? So like understanding what we're dealing with here? What, what are some of the problems we see? And what are some of the reasons we seem? Sure,

Aaron Huey  12:01  
let's let's let's back up one more step and say, What is the problem we're actually dealing with what we are dealing with his unmet needs, and a maladaptive strategy to get those needs met, all human beings have basic needs, and there's five of them, safety, power, connection, freedom and worth. Now, developmental those happen in that order in the womb, it's about safety. Then when we're hit our terrible twos, it's around power. And then we get around seven years old to 18 years old, and it's about connection. And then we get that 18 to 28 years old, and it's about freedom. And then it's about worth for the rest of our lives and I worthy, but of course, we always have some version of all of those. And if a one of them doesn't get met the other start to stretch, they come up as bank accounts and that one gets depleted and overdrawn, you're going to start pulling from others, if one of them gets damaged than the others have to compensate. And we will also find compensatory activities to get those needs met, we asked kids so let's just take a simpler one, one that we don't like, but it's happened. It happens constantly smoking, and not even smoking cannabis vaping and smoking cigarettes. These children this generation has grown up with the knowledge from the moment they started watching TV and got into school that smoking is bad for you. There's not been a hallway in a school without a poster that says Don't smoke teeth, yellow clothes. Like we know this adults notice children notice it's not an argument. It's not a discussion. So why did they start smoking? What is it about smoking? Well, we asked the kids 20 years I've been asking kids, why do you smoke and I get the exact same answers every time. While I get to take a break. I go outside I hang with my friends. Okay. When I said there were five needs, safety, power, connection, freedom and worth. What is going outside taking a break and being with your friends which one of those does it be which multiple ones of those Did it meet? And then Then I've got adults telling me it's wrong. That taking a break, we're going outside and hanging out with my friends as well. But that's actually meeting needs safety, but connection worth freedom from stress. Add to that a nicotine and add to that deep breathing. A nicotine rush and deep breathing creates an addictive process.

Unknown Speaker  14:37  
Let's go a little deeper.

Aaron Huey  14:38  
I can say as someone who used cannabis in a very destructive way for seven years, but used it for a total of 14 years. And I can I'm an addict and toward long term recovery. I'm 23 years so but I can say as a 52 year old man as I looked back when I was hot I, I was happy. When I was sober. I was suicidal. My biological father never contacted me. I was bullied mercilessly as a kid. I was put on Ritalin in the 70s. And I was sexually assaulted and 18 years old. So when I was sober, that was my life. When I was high, my life was music, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, a group of friends came up to my property once a week, I didn't have to work. I mean, I couldn't, I was high, I didn't really have to focus on being a good father because I was high. But the moment I got sober, I was ready to kill myself again. I had a lot of people telling me I should stop. But smoking weed fulfilled a lot of basic human needs a number one being safe. So when we are saying, these are hate kid, these are bad choices. They're not, they're actually extremely resourceful. They are risky, and they don't go good places. And we know this, we have evidence of this, to try to convince a kid that they should stop and face the fact that they've been abandoned, abused, are an addict, or have been assaulted a child, try to get a child to stop forgetting that they're in pain. That's what we're up against. So it's not that they should do it. It's that it makes sense that they do so a parent's first step is to actually look at this negative choice, this risky choice, stop calling it bad, start calling it resourceful, but then also do an analysis on what need is being met. Because I guarantee you it safety, power, connection, freedom or worth, or more than one good name or behavior. It's one or more of those. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  16:56  
yes to that. I had a psychologist once who said everyone makes sense, once you know their story. And it's so true. I mean, it's just what you describe, when we see behavior that we don't understand, or that's frustrating, a lot of times, we just get stuck in the frustration. And we don't dig deeper to understand the motives behind it. And once you do understand the motives behind it, it does take a certain amount of from the adult perspective, like sitting with the discomfort, right, you got to wade into that discomfort as deep as you as you have to go to get your kid. And a lot of times, it's hard as parents, I think to sit there and to like, it's easier almost to deny that there's that level of discomfort in our child, like you just described. And thank you for sharing the depth of your story, because it illustrates so clearly why your work in this area is so powerful, like you've sat in the discomfort of all of those things, you know, in your own right and in your own way, and you've been able to wade through it. And that's what empowers you to go in after whoever else is in that space. But as parents, a lot of times, if we haven't had that experience, it's really, really painful to see our child suffer in that way. Right? And so it's easier to call it a behavior or, and not that any of it's easy. But like if we can if we cannot address the root, because it's so heartbreaking for us, then sometimes, I mean, it proliferates the problem, but it's, it's insulating to the parents. So how do you help parents go there? How do you help parents engage from that place of understanding and say, like, I can sit in this pain with you. So you're not there by yourself, I can create an environment where this is it's okay for you to resolve these things and bring them into the, you know, into the conversation. So we're not just trying to meet needs in these really risky ways.

Aaron Huey  18:40  
Right? I think the biggest strategy we have for parents, is to set a very clear expectation that if you want your child to actually do your child, or if you remember, we're talking about children year 12 to 17 years old and beyond, especially if there's been developmental developmental delays because of drugs, self harm, abuse, PTSD. There's nothing you can say to a child that will get them straight. There is no lecture, no oratory that I have found in a I'm a dad to 25 and 26 years. And I had a family who loved the lecture, love the oratory, and I have to say I was a full on preacher, father when something happened, boy, I got on my pulpit and I was in full proselytizing. But the proof is the evidence that we have is we will do what our parents did or did. This is a modeling operation. This is a modeling exercise. And I know we all know this, this is a reiteration of something that's kind of a duh, but we forget that we feel like in this The moment that we find out that our kids cutting or smoking pot or ran away last night went to a party or has been lying to us or stealing something on the internet or looking at porn or on and on that we have to swoop in and and reassess our value system through some lecture. They've been living with your value system. For how long now? What, how old are they? And they've been programmed with your value system. Oh, not the one you talk about the one you live. So it's easy to say to a parent, I don't want you smoking cannabis. Because you need to deal with life on life's terms, or you need to get good grades or you need to. But mom, dad, when you come home, and you're exhausted from a day, you're burnt, you're spent, you're cooked.

Unknown Speaker  20:45  
How do you deal with?

Aaron Huey  20:49  
Do you practice self care? Or do you fuck down on the couch and binge watch NetFlix and put away a glass or three of wine? How do you deal with it? What's your maladaptive coping strategy? If a parent isn't willing to sit within their own darkness? How could they ever help a child navigate theirs, and we can't expect a child to navigate there's somebody has to lead the way somebody has to be a guide. And if you can't guide a child through their darkness, then you at least have to show a child how to go through it by you going through your own. Because at 25 and 26 years old, I do see my kids practice self care. I do see them practice relationship care and tending to their relationships before they get out there and try to rescue others. How can you take care of a child until you've taken care of yourself? How can you navigate a child's trauma until you've navigated your own? How can we even begin to understand how a child and why a child's self harms? We haven't been able to face how we harm ourselves. And it's tough. It's, this is so much easier said than done. And it's life work, which is exactly what you want your kid to see. This is not a temporary fix. This is compound interest investing. We're in it for the long haul. And this recovery begins. Now, do I know what I'm doing? Nope. Am I going to do it anyway? Yep. And it just has to start with you. It's not it's not you having to go up and take responsibility for all the things you did wrong as a parent find me a parent didn't do it wrong. They don't exist. This starts with you taking responsibility for the things that are still affecting how you make your decisions. That's what we want our kids to analyze. How are you making this decision? What are you looking at? Well,

Unknown Speaker  22:46  
most generally,

Aaron Huey  22:49  
what we do is based on what we feel, what we feel is based on what we think what we think is what we is based on what we've experienced, and what we've experienced is based on our primary influences of life. So now let's go back up to the action that leads to the result that we don't like you said it before Lindsey, we look at the fruit and we go, I don't like these fruits, well scream at a fruit all day long. See if that changes anything. But get down into those roots and see how that it's being nurtured. It's being watered? Does it have the right type of soil? Are we really in the right space to get a different kind of fruits? So we do have to do our own work? At the very least to show a kid how to do their?

Lindsay Miller  23:41  
Yeah, amen. Amen. And I think what you bring up is so key to in the expectation. A lot of times as parents, we have this expectation, at least from the outset that we're going to parent with some degree of skill, and success. And, and I think success redefined is allowing your child to witness your own process of growth, you know, and taking, taking the opportunity as a parent to protect and support you know, to the extent that we're able, and also to engage with our own shadow and our own darkness so that those things can be brought to light and not be passed on unconsciously in ways that our children you know, it might not mirror our own method exactly like you're saying the binge watching TV might be one person's way of dealing with struggle. And then you know, smoking might be a child's way of dealing with it. But when we can change our ideas around parenting to incorporate this idea of process, like be a process parent, instead of being like an end result parent, then we really invite such richness into the environment, right? Like we invite ourselves into this relationship not only with our own growth but with our children. That is authentic, it's open, it allows for whatever comes our way to be processed in a healthy forward momentum, you know, environment as opposed to feeling like a stagnation or a feeling of being stuck, because the tools and the conversation, aren't there in the family environment to kind of propel us through some of those really, really hard moments.

Aaron Huey  25:21  
Transparency is the new tough love. I truly believe this, because Because tough love by and large was an experiment that failed. And I think it failed. Because the toughness had an anger bent to it that we were so pissed off. We were so dumb, we were so annoyed, we were so exhausted, fatigued and furious, that we said, That's it, and we cut it off. And that was a version of emotional parenting, emotional parenting worked. When our kids were toddlers, when we got angry, they got scared, now they're teenagers. And not only are they not scared, but your anger is causing them to focus on your anger, not their strategy. And it's always their strategy. We want them to look at your results or not what you're looking for, look at your strategy, look at how you're getting what you're getting. But when we're screaming, give me your phone, I'm so sick of this, I've had enough, no more, I'm done. They're focusing on you screaming, they're not thinking about, well, she's really upset. And I really need to consider my actions. Employee, I'm gonna sleep on this one that is not realistic. What is realistic, is being very transparent with your process. I'm an expert with other people's kids, I have a coach to help me with mine. Like, that's how much I know my process. That's how much I know my triggers. That's how much my children know me. And we could all do better, we could all get support, we could all get help. The idea that we have figured it out, because we read What to Expect When You're Expecting to read. I never expected that a kid was going to steal the car. I never expected my kid was going to self harm. I never expected that one comment about my daughter's physical health would be the straw that broke her back and became disorderly. I never expected I thought I was being brutally honest, loving father, and I said the wrong damn thing. And it cost her and it cost me and it cost us and the transparency around us the transparency to look at your kid and say,

Unknown Speaker  27:44  
I don't know what to do. I'm gonna go get help,

Aaron Huey  27:48  
has suddenly set you up as a you're not perfect. Do not try to convince your kids that you're a perfect shaman, for thinking that that's a good thing for your kids to think. I have watched children in 20 years, every week, break down at the idea that their parents aren't perfect. And say I wish I'd have known this soon. And I say shame because I don't know who taught us that we were supposed to think that we were doing it right. Did you think your parents did it right? Like, do you think your kids are gonna think up there? Right? Let's just give that whole thing up. And let's give up with that. The shame of not doing it right. And let's connect with each other and say, I'm really pissed at my kid. I'm so angry, I heard a noise, something went bump went into their room and they were gone. The window was open. And I call them they're not texting back. I stayed up all night, they came home at 6am. And they were drunk. They were high and I don't know what to do. The benefit to that of having that moment with another adult instead of with your kid is very simply this when we are dealing with the ex fear, fatigue, and fear when we are parenting from those places. Our best parenting is fear, fatigue, and fear. That's our best we can do because the emotion is going to carry the day. But if we have this emotion, we're like I'm terrified and exhausted. And I am pissed. And so I call up Lindsay and Lindsay and I had to Lindsay I gotta tell you, I'm gonna smother this kid with a pillow. And I'm trying to figure out how I'm gonna get away with it. And Lindsay's like yep, I feel Yeah. Okay, how you doing now? It's like I'm better. Thanks for saying, Okay, let's brainstorm. And Lindsay and I sit down and we brainstorm for a few hours. And we figure something out or a few minutes and we figure something out or just the fact that I got to call you Say, I'm struggling you with the philia. Are you going to be okay? Yeah, I'm just gonna, then I go parent. Even if I do something bad, it's going to come from a better place. So you, here's your, here's your choice, do your best from your worst position, or do your worst from your best possession. Which one's going to help you sleep at night? That's what we're left with when kids are in crisis. So you have to practice self care. That's how you do your best parent, especially with the worst moments.

Unknown Speaker  30:37  
Incredible.

Lindsay Miller  30:39  
Incredible. Yeah. Yeah, 100%, that was just so powerful. The way that you said if you're, you know, if you're in that fear, fatigue and fury, that's, that's what's you're gonna get, that's the environment you're cultivating. That's the relationship you're fostering. I mean, that's where that's where you're going. And, and there is something so powerful. I mean, I have my own parenting coach to like, it's so powerful to have somebody on your team who you can be like, I just, I actually don't even know what to do in this situation, I have no idea. And I need support. And to know, it's not just me, I don't have just my own ideas, you know, and I get the benefit of talking to genius people like us. So I get a ton of great ideas, too. But there's so many ways we can approach a situation, when we step back from it, like you just said, give ourselves a minute, allow some processing to happen and allow ourselves to loop in a perspective that is maybe a little more regulated than ours in that moment. And then move forward from that space, I'm going to from a neuroscience perspective, when we're in that state, mentally there is the creativity is out the window, it's like you said, there is no way we are gonna get creative about any solutions. And so often with kids, I think, especially with kids who are under duress, our creativity is what's going to help us take the situation that we're in and create a path forward that honors, like, what our needs are, what our child's needs are and what the you know, the environment that we're in, and allows us to kind of weave those things together in a way that creates some level of growth or some level of recovery. And if we if we try to act and engage without our creativity, I mean, we're dead in the water, there's just nothing that we can do in that space.

Aaron Huey  32:21  
In that space. Your brain literally cannot access create No, no creativity lives in the prefrontal cortex. You're in fight flight, freeze faint, fornicating feet, the best you are is an alligator, or for a full blown Dragon, like it like and you're just going to burn the place down. The the transparency piece comes in when we say I can't deal with this now. It's all it's only going to be anger. And I love you too much to scream at you. And I'm hurt. And I'm confused. And I'm terrified. And I'm not going to parent from this. We will deal with consequences later. And walk out. Did you leave it alone? If it's not life and limb and you're not dialing 911? Then you can give it a minute, a day a week? They did they are not rats and dogs, they have long term memories. They might they might try to deny it. But you still come back and say no, we're we're going to do this. You know, I just needed to parent from a different place. Because this is an important parenting moment. Right? This is there's nothing to be I don't here's it. Here's where parents get fields. First of all about the transparency. Be transparent about your process. I'm talking to a coach. I'm trying to come up with new ideas. And I'm done. I'm done with this. And I'm going into recovery. Because I am not willing to live like this anymore. I have no clue what I'm going to do. Good. You got me wrapped around the bushes. So I'm going to take some time and unwrap and I'll get back to you. But things are changing. All right, I love and walk out. Now, then that's the transparence it's just being fully open with your process. The second piece is and then this is where parents get caught up. Well, what should I do? Should I take away their phone or take away the internet? Do I ground them for a week or a month? Do I and my answer is always this drives parents crazy. I don't care. I don't care what you do. I care how you do it. Because I could walk up to you go Lindsay that's a nest Give me your phone. Sometimes you're not gonna and I don't know. No. Versus so I was working with my coach and this one has been a struggle for me and I'm sure you're going through a really tough and frustrating time and I'm so sorry that smoking cannabis feels like such a powerful solution to and I get it. I am going to go ahead and take away your phone That was our agreement. And I'd like to have a conversation on Thursday about when you'll get it back, but I'm not willing to talk about it before them.

Unknown Speaker  35:09  
I love you,

Aaron Huey  35:11  
I'm sorry, we're going through such a struggle. Now the second one's going to land. The second one is connection before correction, Alliance before compliance. Right? I don't know if I'll keep the phone a week, I don't know if this is going to work out. But the work I had to do to get to the place where I could keep my voice and my sanity and my nervous system online, while I looked at this child, who is the love of my life, who is shattering the paradigm of my hopes, and keep it together? At the very least as modeling, when things get bad, take care of yourself, get support, and keep it together, because this will change. And that's what you have to do in these moments. I know because for 12 years, I had top notch staff practice this on a daily basis and the kids would having 18 kids in a facility like that one kid you have in your family, we were dealing with this day in day out 24 hours a day. And you get to practice so parents, if you don't practice this 99% of the time that 1% of the time that you need it, you're not going to have it. This is this is not what to do when your kids in crisis. This is what do. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  36:39  
I'm speechless. Just so much wisdom there so much. Because when we can approach a person, like you said, with I love those phrases that used connection instead of compliance, no connection instead extra

Aaron Huey  36:54  
before correction, okay, alliances before compliance,

Lindsay Miller  36:58  
yes or no, we can approach a situation with the recognition that it is an individual with needs, I mean, that's going back to our beginning conversation, it's taking into account that we are speaking to an individual who has needs, and they are doing their level best to get those needs met. And there needs to be a little bit different teamwork going on to get them met in a more functional way. And when we can give ourselves a break about that and get the support we need, we can give our kids a little more space and a little more opportunity to grow through the situation instead of us feeling like, like you said, like the house is burning down, and we're all just gonna go with it.

Aaron Huey  37:34  
Yeah, yeah. And we also have time and a team. The Sphinx to create a consequence, that's going to matter. But I love to say it in my parenting classes, I've saved the consequence, don't hurt the consequence don't matter. And there is nothing about you screaming at your kid. That is a consequence anymore. They've passed that that's not leveraged taking away their phone. That's not leverage, know how you do it, and why you that's leverage, as long as you keep them focused on their strategy. But see, at the same time that we're trying to create emotional consequence, we're intervening on the natural one that was setting up to handle our kid. There's a couple things in play. Number one, as parents when our kids are younger, up to the age of 12, that's our job is to protect them from consequences to protect them from the world. Because the world of violent, dark shadowy place, Lindsey 30%, of the internet is pornography. 30%. Can you imagine if the public library in the town that you and I grew up, if 30% of those books were pornographic, with violent imagery that were not okay for our child braids, what our parents have ever sent us there, especially when there was no librarian to make sure that we were staying out of that dark section. But now, it's anarchy. The library is wide open, any kid has poured in their pocket, every end, any kid has porn in their pocket. So that's our job as parents is to protect them. But but but but but here's the big booty. The moment that kid is 12 years old, that your job shifts, it's now to prepare them to live in the real world. Because the real world is not going to change for your child. Now, if we're good parents, if we if we're doing our job very consciously, then we're allowing them to have natural consequences as little kids because we're in the way of the ones we don't want. We will scream and yank them out of the road when they're little kids if they're running into traffic and we will teach them how to look both ways. We're not walking with them anymore when they're teenagers. And when this kid is calling you means when this kid is completely out of Controlling dysregulated we have to start imagining what the Taco Bell manager is going to do when our kid talks to them like this, because they're practicing. And we need to start allowing natural consequences to take over. This is a tough conversation because we're afraid. And I get that, especially when the kid is dealing with more risky decision making process. But even then, if, if it's life and limb, and I mean real life and live not, if my kid fails math, they won't get into college, so they won't get a good job. So they'll starve to death and die. That's not life and limb that is nurturing, that school is everything. And that's not I ran top treatment for teenagers in the United States. And I found out two weeks, two days before I graduated high school that I was graduating, and I did not go to business school, you are not talking to a smart man, you're you're not talking to enhance that I don't even know if I'm a man. But that's not the point. The point is, is that we get so scared that we think everything's life. And the truth is, is that when it's real life and limb, you have to intervene, I don't care how old your child is, jump in, they lose their vote, do what you need to do. But when it's out of life, and one, let them handle the problems. If you're paying for the attorney, if you're paying for the court fees, you're making sure they get to the court on time, they are not dealing with the consequences, then the consequences don't matter. And then we say When will you learn? The answer is never. So we have to let them suffer the consequences of their strategy, how also they're going to focus on the strategy. If you solve all their problems, they don't like what's going on, guess who's to blame the person who solved all their problems.

Unknown Speaker  41:57  
So let them fall,

Aaron Huey  42:01  
cheer them on as they get up, hand the problem back, communicate that you trust them. And if it's really life and limb, spare no expense, get in there and save your kid's life. But that your real work is figuring out what is actually life and limb behavior. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  42:22  
that makes so much sense. And it reminds me as you've threaded throughout this incredible conversation about the nervous system, like which is the strongest nervous system in the room. And that is the nervous system that will be making the choices that have the biggest impact, when we can cultivate that strong nervous system. And when we can get the support, we need to come into those conversations with balance, when we can have like the awareness and the presence of mind to identify like, this situation is life threatening, I need to intervene. And this situation is one that I'm going to have to sit on, even though that's going to be really challenging, you know, and I'm gonna have to get some support to figure out how to approach this with my kid because I've never done that before and let them kind of just sit in the consequence. And so, but all of those things point to the nervous system that is, you know, the strongest in the room and cultivating that is such a powerful way to Yeah,

Aaron Huey  43:17  
approach conversations with such an amazing mix up that I have seen so much and, and if there are any parents who are listening to this example and going through it, please hear when a child comes to you and they've been self harming, and they show you their cuts and different stages of healing. That's not life and limb. But that's what traumatizes parents parents go into survival parenting. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, my child's cutting themselves. Is this a concern? Yes. Does this require research? Yes, it does require time that requires you resourcing out and understanding what's going on with the brain chemistry because it is not a suicidal act. It's a dopamine result. And so we overreact on something like self harm. I'm not saying we don't react. I'm saying that parents who slipped into fear parenting, because their child is self harming. It doesn't help. And then on the flip side, your child comes up to you and they're crying, and they're sobbing, because their girlfriend boyfriend broke up with them failed a test and now they want to kill themselves. I just want to die. And we immediately put ourselves in a mindset that are they're just trying to get attention. You're right. They are. Are you paying attention? Now they're just this is just a cry for help. Yes, it is a desperate, dangerous cry for help. It's really hard. This is why first thing is self care. Second thing is adult relationship care. And third thing is child care. Because it's those moments that we mix up when a child fed about suicide. And we say hi, they're talking about suicide the other day, when I hear that I'm like, What did you do? Well, we talked about it. Mom, Dad, you're the last person that should be talking to your kid about suicide when they when they say, Hey, I'm feeling suicidal, your phone should be on 911, your child needs to understand the results of that strategy. suicidal thinking, brings the ambulance. And if they're just venting, they will let you know. But they need to see you're paying attention at that level, it's when we get to that point that we need to hold them tight and hold them close. The cutting thing it's really scary to look at it's, it's it is nightmarish. And it keeps you up at night. Use that time to do your research and listen to podcasts about cutting read books on children who self harm, look at the brain chemistry, figure out the long term effects and the long term strategies to deal with this. Because there is nothing that's going to change this quick. And it is not a suicidal act. This is what happens when we get into fear is we missed big markers, like those two examples.

Lindsay Miller  46:19  
Thank you for sharing those. And it really highlights the importance of connecting with someone like you that your podcast your work, connecting with people who have walked this path before and are experts in the field. Because when you're you know when that happens, and you're the first the first time you've seen it, and you don't know what to do, like you said, and you just go to fear. When you can connect with someone who has perspective, when you connect with the resources that you need to give you just a different view, you can engage with it from a little bit of removal, right? Like your your emotions aren't driving, driving the interaction and driving your response as much are acknowledging processing those with support. But you're not you're not acting from there, you're acting from that place of awareness from that place of informed support. Where like you have wisdom beyond your own coming into play.

Aaron Huey  47:09  
Yeah. It's more potent to say, I don't know what to do. Looking at these cuts is terrifying. I'm so sad. And I'm gonna get some help. So I do the right thing. I love you, I love you, I love you. Versus anything else. Because cuts aren't life and limb. And they look like it's suicide talk is always life and limb. And I say this, and I'm trying to keep from crying. While I say this. Because I've worked with parents who've lost their children from suicide, it's not something you get over. Don't, don't second guess, don't try to figure it out, call 911. And when the ambulance is on the way, don't let them leave your site. And when the paramedics show up, when the police, the fire department shows up, if you meet them and say we have a mental health crisis, your kid may talk through it and talk to the social worker at the emergency room, we may realize that this is not a current that did this was just more venting than intending. But at least you did whatever it took in that moment. So that the worst thing is that you apologize for doing too much. But to have to live with not doing enough. Don't even venture into that realm. So always with suicide talk parents always was suicide talk.

Unknown Speaker  48:37  
Get help immediately. Thank you.

Lindsay Miller  48:46  
I have no words for this conversation. It has been insightful, inspiring, grounding, and just heartfelt. I mean, the things that we're talking about today are hard, hard things. I mean, you don't you don't study high risk like you do and not engage with the hardest stuff. And when it comes to kids and the hardest stuff, it just heartbreaking on a different level. And it's heart like heart rending maybe. And I think that that rendering opens us up to so much like depth of connection and support if we choose it. And thank you for putting yourself out there as someone who's available for that someone who isn't like an expert and engaged with that process continually with family so that when they need support, someone like you is there to step in and say I've got you I hear you. Like you said earlier, I totally get it. You're not alone. I'm right here. Here's some ideas. So talk to us about how we can continue to connect with you Aaron and what what your work is right now.

Aaron Huey  49:43  
So thank you for the opportunity to shout and cry and vent with your crowd. You're not alone. And 25% of parents are going through the heavy stuff. And your stuff the heavy stuff. is familiar to them. So you're not terminally unique. That's a term we use in recovery to say I'm so different that could kill me. No such thing. I have two free resources and one one paid resource. Here's your the free ones. First, beyond risk and back is my podcast. And this is just where I get to talk to the experts about depression, anxiety, mental health, behavioral health and addiction and adolescent development. The niche market is for parents of teens at risk and beyond. These are the kids who at risk maybe was six months ago, and now it's desperate. We got you with we're we're the show for you. If your toddler storing chicken sticks on the ground and doesn't want to wear shoes, Sorry, can't help you. Learn the old song. That's all I know. But I'm gonna love and logic parents know this is the kid stole the car and totaled it. And when they pulled the kid out of the car, they were at od levels of drugs. And now they're in a cute unit. What do we do? We know what to do. And so the podcast is beyond risk and back and the Facebook group, which is also a free resource of over 1700 parents who are going through what you're going through. And it's called parenting teams that struggle. And this is the place where a parent will be going through something that they will write up on that page, my 1117 year old blah, blah, blah, didn't come home last night. I'm glad that I'm What do I do? And other parents are showing up to support each other. I post all my videos, I post all my podcasts. I have other experts who posts there. It's a place to get the support to have a community who gets it. Everything I've ever taught parents, I've put in a 57 video, parenting masterclass. It's $37. Because I want every parent to have access to it. That's at brab ak.com, b r a b for beyond risk and Back, B R A B A. P p.com. It take a little 10 question quiz to figure out whether you should start your class in the red, the yellow or the green red is oh my god, it's desperate work life and limb. Yellow is we're at risk. We're not life and limb. But it could go that way. And green is things are good. But they can be great. What do I need to change as a parent to get this kid to be a world changer? And of course all the parenting classes are what the parents can do differently, how the parents can support their household how they can take care of themselves and resource out. So the Andras comeback? parenting teens that struggle on Facebook, and brab app.com for the parenting course.

Unknown Speaker  52:53  
Okay,

Lindsay Miller  52:55  
check it out. I mean, get the support from someone who can really offer it in the moments that you need it. Before we go, can I ask you three questions that I asked podcast guests. Please do. Okay, your favorite food.

Aaron Huey  53:11  
My favorite food of all time is tacos. i My first job was at Taco Bell. And it's tacos. It will always be tacos.

Lindsay Miller  53:25  
I love that your first job was there and you still want to eat that my husband worked at KFC and he was like I will never talk.

Aaron Huey  53:33  
I will always eat a taco bell del taco. Taco John's I will eat street tacos in Mexico. I love tacos

Lindsay Miller  53:44  
and love it. What is your favorite way to relax

Aaron Huey  53:49  
the gym. And I want to give parents a little side note on the gym thing to keep my nervous system regulated. I've extremely ADHD. I'm very, very ADHD as an adult, so I have to be engaged at multiple levels at all times. So I listened to heavy metal music. I'm still a death metal head at 52 years old. But you're gonna laugh. I record my voice saying positive affirmations about my life. And I loop it over my favorite heavy metal music. And so while I listen to my music, and I lift weights, I am hearing my voice saying every day and in every way. My relationship with my wife gets better and better every day and in every way my financial situation gets better and better because I believe in affirmations but what I really know to be true is when my body and my mind are moving together. I can focus and I'm at home. So this heavy metal flamenco dancing scream therapy brain that I got going on up here The only way to use it and to keep it as a superpower is I have to placate the noise. So I do. Plus I love the sound of my voice.

Lindsay Miller  55:10  
Oh, that was fantastic. So many gems just yeah, in that little snippet. Are those brains? They can be superpowers, but we just kind of know how to work with them. You got to work it sorted. Yep. And then what is a funny story or memory from your childhood?

Aaron Huey  55:26  
The funny is relative. Okay, I was 13 years old. And I decided I was going to kill myself. And every Friday night, I babysat these three kids, and I really loved these kids. And I had made my plan to die on Saturday morning. And on Friday night, I was getting ready to go babysit these kids. And my friend Neil Baker, who lived down the street called me and he said, Hey, are you babysitting tonight? And I said, Yeah, and he knew I babysat every Friday night. And he said at 1030 Watch channel six, watch PBS 1030. There's a show called Monty Python's Flying Circus. Just watch it. Tell me what you think tomorrow. And I went played with the kids. I babysat them. I said goodnight to them, which was my final goodbye. And I waited until 1030. And Monty Python's Flying Circus came on. And Twitter. The EU was the episode that they were doing. And I laughed, and I laughed, and it was the funniest thing I had ever seen in my, my life. And I laughed so hard, I broke. And I sobbed. And I just released it all. And I said, I'll wait one more week. And I'll watch one more episode. And I spent that summer of my 13th year laughing myself back alive. Humor has always been important in my family. And it's always been important growing up and being a speaker. But it was another thing to write John Cleese and to tell him. You made me laugh so hard. I stayed alive. So that was the funniest moment of my childhood, in my most desperate

Unknown Speaker  57:18  
rock bottom moment of recovery as a child. So sorry to put it down our this.

Aaron Huey  57:28  
What I will forever be grateful for laughing

that hard. 

Lindsay Miller  57:32  
Yeah.

Yeah. What an incredible story of all of what you shared here today. Aaron has just been so powerful. Thank you. Thank you for being for the work that you do and for sharing that with us today.

Aaron Huey  57:46  
Thank you, Lindsay. I appreciate being on your show.

Lindsay Miller  57:48  
Well, what did you think Aaron has quite a bit of wisdom, right. He's experiences with children who participate in risky behaviors is extensive, and I really appreciated his perspective. If you know someone who would benefit from listening to this podcast, please, please share it. I feel like what he what he offers and the experience that he's garnered from working with families for so many years is really amazing. And has the potential to impact a lot of lives. And as always, I appreciate it when you review the podcast, so thank you for being here, the listeners. Thanks for sharing it and thanks for reviewing it. I'm grateful for the opportunity to connect with you each week. Until next time!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai