How does tapping work?

Lindsay Miller  0:23  
Hey, this is Lindsay. I'm so grateful that you're here. Today's episode is with Lauren Fonvielle. And she's going to talk to us about tapping ever since I recorded the first episode on tapping I've had questions how it works, when to use it. And so this is one more resource for you to learn about tapping from Lauren's perspective. And to hear her talk about some simple simple ways to just utilize it anytime you're feeling stressed or your kiddos are feeling stressed. To help you feel a little bit more calm. This episode is brought to you by the essential calendar, which is a big wall calendar that lets you see three months at a glance you can sit down for an hour and be organized for three months and not even have to worry about it. You can find it at www.thecentralcalendar.com. Now onto the episode. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller. And I'm delighted that you're here to pick up some practical tools to decrease your family's stress levels. My guest today is Lauren Fonvielle. As an expert in emotional freedom technique or EFT and tapping. She offers a fresh perspective on what is keeping people feeling stuck with chronic pain, like physical stuff, physical pain or emotional pain. So people who are emotionally and physically stuck right now a lot of us are right. And she talks about how our underlying beliefs and emotions whether or not we're aware of them can affect our happiness in life. Learning how to better manage our emotions and release any associated stress can be a complete game changer for kids and adults alike. Lauren, thanks so much for being here.

Lauren Fonvielle  1:55  
Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

Lindsay Miller  1:57  
Yeah, this will be such a great chat, because we have been talking about different tools that families can use right now, right, because we're having epic levels of stress for kids and adults. And it's manifesting in anxiety, panic, you know, kids are struggling at school, they're struggling to connect, we're seeing more arguments, fighting, yelling, because people don't have any other thing to resort to right. And when we get that stressed, we kind of just lose all other coping mechanisms and what you're sharing with us today, this tapping technique, it's really, really a simple way to alleviate some of that stress burden right now, right?

Lauren Fonvielle  2:32  
That's exactly right. And you don't I love that you don't need anything, all you just need is your fingertips, which you have with you all the time, hopefully. Right? And it's, it's simple, and it's easy to learn. Once you know where the points are, all you really need to be able to do is tap and breathe. And it's and it's going to help you in the moment. Yeah, so this

Lindsay Miller  2:51  
is something that we run into a lot. We're gonna get into the practice of it. But when we're talking about simple solutions for problem, that's problems that seem really complex. Sometimes people think, oh, my gosh, like, no, no, I have this really big problem, like a simple thing isn't going to fix it right? Like I need, because this is a big problem, I need a really huge intervention. Right? Can you speak to that mindset? And just talk a little bit about how sometimes the simple things are the most effective?

Lauren Fonvielle  3:20  
Yeah. And I will say off the bat that if you're if you're skeptical about this idea of tapping on yourself to reduce physical pain or emotional pain, know that you're not alone. I was definitely one of those people who was who was super skeptical as well. But I got I think, I think I know I got to a point. And I think a lot of people get to a point where when you're feeling bad, you're like, give me let me try whatever. I'm open to it. You know. So if you come into this with an open mind, I think you'll be surprised by what you what you see. And if you are skeptical, and and you and you do this, and you're not sure you don't believe that it's going to work, this is a practice. That is that has a lot of science behind it. So you do not need to believe in it for it to work. So I think that's I think that's key. And just give it a try. It can't hurt, right. This is this is nothing, there's no side effects. There's no negative side effects from giving this a try. So see if it works for you. I mean, there's lots of different modalities out there. And I think it's a process of figuring out what works best for you. So I hope that this helps at least one person.

Lindsay Miller  4:35  
No, I'm sure it'll be really helpful. And I'm grateful that you spoke to that, like the variety of modalities available for offering us support with stress. And I think a lot of times, our minds maybe go to one or two that we're familiar with or that a lot of our friends do or culturally we're aware of. And I know when it comes to mindfulness like when I'm coaching kids and mindfulness, people are wondering why how is this different? Or, like I'm just used to therapy, what's the difference here and it's I think that idea of exploring things, especially things that are so simple, is really powerful, right? And I'll tell families, I was just having a conversation with a mom the other day, and I was like, start with the easiest thing. Like, what? How can this be like? How can you resolve this stress in the most simple way? And then if you need is no additional intervention? I mean, I'm here, there are a few resources I have, I can offer you before that so that you could try on your own to help resolve it, but don't go to, you know, a super complicated solution right off the bat if a simple one is going to do the trick,

Lauren Fonvielle  5:34  
right? Yeah, like the super complicated one probably even adds more stress, right? So I'm all about keeping it keeping it simple and easy. And I think that's part of the reason why I love tapping so much, because it is such a such a simple technique.

Lindsay Miller  5:47  
Yeah. Now you spoke to the science and I love that you brought up you don't have to believe in it for it to work. So it's not like you have to, like we're talking about the body. And we're talking about energy. And we're talking about some things that are concrete. And so your mental process around this can be one thing, and then the physical practice of tapping can be another, can you walk us through the science of it?

Lauren Fonvielle  6:07  
Yeah. So the points that that you're tapping on are similar to the points that if you were to go to an acupuncturist, that they would put those needles in at. And those, those points are the endpoints of the meridians. And the meridians are how energy moves through the body. So you know how the blood moves through our vessels, our energy moves through the meridians. And so sometimes the energy can get stuck and tapping, tapping on those points can help to move it. Now as far as the science what's happening internally, that as you tap on these points, a message is getting sent to the amygdala in the brain. And the amygdala is the part of the brain that controls fight or flight. And when you are in that state of fight, or flight, cortisol is being pumped through your body. And so when you're tapping on these points, what's happening is a message is going into the amygdala saying, Hey, you're actually not in fight or flight right now, you don't need to be freaking out. And it has been shown to reduce the amount of cortisol pumping through the body by up to 40%. And that can happen within minutes. And that's a huge number, and can make a drastic difference in how you feel. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  7:19  
for sure. And I love what you're saying about the immediacy of it, because a lot of times when we talk about the amygdala, like most things, it takes five to seven minutes for it to settle, right. And so if you can cut that time in half, or in a third or you know, and get the amygdala to settle down and to stop sending that, hey, we're in like a dire situation here message for a kid who's about to take a test or you know, who's on the soccer field about to start a game or you know, who's in a bowling championship, whatever it is, like, if we can cut the amount of communication that the amygdala is doing that says, hey, this is an emergency. I mean, everyone is better off, right? Like our communication is online, when our amygdala is less active, our problem solving is online, when our amygdala is less active. Like, there's so many things that shift in the brain, when we can help the amygdala just feel a little more settled.

Lauren Fonvielle  8:12  
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's, it changes everything. And it can happen. And like I said, yeah, it can happen quickly. And, you know, I think the important thing is, is your awareness, right. So as you're starting to realize, Oh, I'm starting to feel a little bit anxious, if you if you have that awareness, then you can start the tapping sooner, you know. And as well as when you are in the throes of, say, an anxiety attack, it's, it's a lot harder to use a tool that you're not using all the time, which is why I'm always telling people, you know, tap for a few minutes in the morning or a few minutes before you go to bed something that you when you when you get used to the idea of doing it, then when you're in that state of overwhelm, or anxiety, it'll be that much easier to implement in those moments.

Lindsay Miller  8:59  
Yeah, yeah, it's such a good point. I do the same thing with mindfulness and breathing, right? Like, if we're going to create those neural connections, we need to make sure we're practicing ahead of time so that they're strong when we need them and the same, right, like what's happening if this is going to be something you you go to make it something that's useful for you to connect with by practicing consistently.

Lauren Fonvielle  9:21  
Yes, yes. I'm totally aligned with you there.

Lindsay Miller  9:24  
Yeah. Okay. So let's get into it. Because you're talking about this taking five minutes or less, right, like if you're Yeah,

Lauren Fonvielle  9:30  
I mean, when you when I work with someone one on one, we do it, we do it for longer. But if you're talking about like really feeling overwhelmed in the moment, yes, within within several minutes, tapping and breathing, that in itself can can be helpful. But if we're talking more about really trying to get the get to the root of the issue as to what is really causing the anxiety and stress that can take some more time. So yeah, I just want to clarify that.

Lindsay Miller  9:55  
Yeah. No, and I think it's a good point because sometimes when it says So when we're trying to help our kids, right, we're in a point where we, if we're seeing them in pain, our first instinct is to just stop the pain, right to just help them immediately, you know, feel better. And then to kind of address some of the underlying things if it becomes a pattern, or if this seems like something that's consistent for them. So it seems like such an empowering thing for parents to have, especially right now, right, like a few tools to help them get out of a state of panic. And they see that and we see we're seeing more and more kids who are, you know, experiencing that right where they're starting to notice. So I'm hearing you say the first step is, get aware, like notice in the body, how that feels. Notice some of the signs that anxiety is building and your amygdala is like starting to hijack the whole operation, what is the next step,

Lauren Fonvielle  10:48  
acknowledging the the most intense emotion that you're feeling, so if it's anger, or frustration, or sadness, acknowledging what that what that emotion is, and with tapping, we, we really start, it meets you where you're at. So you start with that emotion. And if that's an intense feeling, like that's okay, we want to allow yourself to feel that as opposed to, let's say, you know, you're feeling really sad. It's not like, you can just like flip a switch and be like, Okay, now I'm going to focus on being really happy, it doesn't work like that. And so tapping allows you to feel that sadness, acknowledge that sadness, maybe come up with a sentence, that that is related to why you're sad. And tap using those words. And you say that that's those same words over and over on the points until that intensity goes down, and then a new, maybe a new phrase, will, will come to mind. And you can move forward with that. And within a few minutes, things can start to settle down.

Lindsay Miller  11:53  
Okay, this sounds great. Can you walk us through some practices or an example?

Lauren Fonvielle  11:58  
Yeah, absolutely. So maybe I should go through where the points are first. And then and then we can go through an example. So the first point is on the pinky side of the hand, and you can tap with either hand, so it doesn't doesn't matter which which side. So kind of the fleshy part below the below the pinky on the side of the fence. And this is what, where we do what's called a setup statement. And I'll come back to that. The next point is right in the top of the center of the head on the top of the head. So when you go to the, if you're taking your kid to the doctor, and they're bringing that stick down to see how tall they are, right where it hits them in the middle of the head is where you want to be tapping. And then the next point is the start of the eyebrows. And so you can do both hands at the same time tapping on both eyebrows at the same time. Or you could do one at a time. Most people will, will tell me that they feel uneven if they're, if they're not doing both. And then we go to the side of the eyes, so like at the end of the eyebrows. And while you're doing this, you just want to be mindful of your breathing, also taking some deep breaths, really filling that belly up with air, then the next point is underneath the eyes. And then we move underneath the nose. And then onto the chin crease. And then we go to the collarbone. So you want to there's that like center divot thing in your neck, and then you go down about an inch and over about an inch, inch and a half. So you're really on the fleshy part underneath the collarbone. So you can do it, we'll be doing it with both hands, like we're doing right now where you can take one hand and kind of spread it apart apart so that the thumb is hitting one point and the index fingers hitting one point. So there's no wrong way of tapping. Sometimes people will ask, well, how many times should I tap on each point? I think the the books will tell you at least seven to eight times. But you can see that, you know, we're spending a little bit more time on each point. And then the next point is under the arm. So about two and a half, three inches from the armpit. And so you can do one side and then the other other side. Or you could cross your arms in front of you kind of like giving yourself a hug while you're doing it. Or you could wring your hands on your right hand under your right armpit. So you kind of like tapping yourself like a little monkey wash. And then the last point is on the top of the hand between the pinky and the ring finger, and I just use all four fingers to top to tap there. That's called the gamut point. And sometimes I hold my hand down in front of me, or sometimes it can be common to just bring your hand onto your heart on top that way. And that's it. Those are all the points. So I can also I'll share with you a PDF so that if people you know can't visualize it, then they can they can look at the PDF to see all of those points. And I do want to share some addition low points. So those are the points that are part of the regular protocol. But especially for kids, I find these to be helpful. But even adults too, I was been working with two different clients actually, that have a lot of medical anxiety. And if you don't want to be in the doctor's office, tapping your head and having people look at you, like, what is that crazy lady do it. There are some more discrete points. And same thing for kids, like I tell my kids, if you're feeling nervous before a test, just squeeze if you want to squeeze at the bed of the nail, so on on any of the fingers. So you're just bringing your fingers to either side of the bed of the nail and just squeezing, right. And so you can easily put your hands in your lap, and just squeeze your fingers and it looks like you're fidgeting. But again, tapping on all these points or squeezing these points is going to send that message to the amygdala and say, Hey, no need to be freaking out and reduce the amount of amount of cortisol. And so this can be helpful if you're at you're at the doctor's office, and you're you know, I know that one of my clients was having a lot of issues with having her blood pressure go really, really high, you know, the white coat syndrome, right. And so this, this is something that really, really helped her and she just had a great appointment where where she didn't have that happen. So yeah, just squeezing those fingertips, taking a few deep breaths. And then the other thing I would say, is that as you kind of play around with that, and tap on those points, notice if certain points stand out as ones that you really enjoy tapping on. So if you think about when you know, when you're upset, maybe or when you're maybe sitting at your desk, and you're overwhelmed. Sometimes you'll just like bring your hands like to your head like, Ah, right, you're like overwhelmed. And you're just like, but and you might be actually touching some of those points, or some people bringing your hand to your heart is a is a common one. And so notice if there's one point that you that you really gravitate towards, if you take anything away from this, just know that if you tap on that point, it can help to it can help to calm you down. Okay, so that's the basics. Do you have any? Does that all make sense?

Lindsay Miller  17:06  
Yeah, no, I love it. Well, and it was interesting, because as you were guiding us through them, at first, I was squeezing like where my fingernail is, and not my nail bed. And so then when I went to my nail bed, though, like I felt a different in the body. So I think I love how you said just pay attention, right? And notice and notice kind of what you're experiencing at each juncture. And it's so interesting that yeah, those pressure, like putting pressure in the right places, or close to the right place. I mean, I was like, all the way up on my fingertips. Right. Putting pressure close to the right places can have Yeah, like a distinct, a distinct impact pretty quick. I mean, I yeah, I noticed a difference.

Lauren Fonvielle  17:41  
Awesome, awesome. Okay, so then when we move through kind of bringing in or incorporating in the emotional part of it, like how we're actually feeling, we would start on the pinky side of the hand. And I always like to tell people, you know, take a few deep breaths get get settled in your seat. And, and we would start with whatever the whatever the intense emotion is. So if you're feeling really stressed out, you could say something like, even though I'm feeling really stressed out right now, I love and accept myself. And you would say that three times three times over. And, and you want to rate yourself, so you have a starting point and an ending point. So how stressed out do you feel on a scale of zero to 10, zero being not stressed at all 10 being the most. And you do that just so that you kind of have a gauge as to where you are, and then when you check back in to see to see how you're feeling? So if you want we can go through a whole example of stress. If you think that would be if you think that would be Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  18:47  
that would be great. It like anxiety is big right now. Yeah, a lot of kids. So if is it better to zero out to just make it stress to make it a little more I can do both?

Lauren Fonvielle  18:58  
I think they're I think they're very much intertwined. So I think I think it's okay, so why don't we Why don't we go with just like a real example. And I'll have you I'll have up my echo. So the way that it works, when I'm working one on one with a client or even in a group setting, we can we can do this work. I'll say the sentence I always try to reflect back, you know, what the person has said to me and using and using their own words. But if you're just doing this by yourself, you would just come up with the sentence, you know, that feels good to you that makes that feels that makes no sense, right? And you'll you can stay with those same words. But when we do this, we'll probably change the words a little bit just to kind of give people a little insight into what it can look like. So if we're doing if we're doing stress and anxiety, do you want to just elaborate on something that's causing stress and anxiety that we can tap on to see if that makes a difference in how you're feeling?

Lindsay Miller  19:56  
Yeah, so a lot do you want me to do personally or like a kid Exam? have

Lauren Fonvielle  20:01  
you personally would be fine.

Lindsay Miller  20:02  
Okay, let's do it. Okay. I feel stressed and anxiety when I don't plan things like with enough time in advance, I'm not good at transitions. So if I like I'm in a rush to get somewhere because I didn't plan enough transition time that I feel stressed and anxiety. Does that work? Yeah.

Lauren Fonvielle  20:21  
And how and when you think about having to rush not being not good to transitions? How intense does that feel for you? When you think about it?

Lindsay Miller  20:28  
When I'm thinking about, it's probably a six when I'm experiencing it, it's probably like an eight.

Lauren Fonvielle  20:34  
Okay. Okay. So we'll say and if I say anything that doesn't, that doesn't feel right, you just let me know we can change the words. Okay. Okay. Even though I get stressed out when I'm feeling rushed, and then you just repeat me, repeat after me.

Lindsay Miller  20:51  
Even though I get stressed out when I'm feeling rushed. I'm acknowledging how I feel. I'm acknowledging how I feel. Even though I'm not good with transitions, even though I'm not good with transitions, and they really stressed me out, and they really stressed me out. That's just how it is. That's just how it is.

Lauren Fonvielle  21:12  
Even though I get really stressed out when

Lindsay Miller  21:15  
I'm rushed, even though I get really stressed out when I'm rushed. I love and accept myself anyway. I love and accept myself anyway. And then we're gonna move

Lauren Fonvielle  21:23  
to the top of the head. I get really stressed out when I'm rushed.

Lindsay Miller  21:28  
I get really stressed out when I'm rushed.

Lauren Fonvielle  21:31  
Coming to the eyebrows, I'm not good with transitions.

Lindsay Miller  21:36  
I'm not good with transitions.

Lauren Fonvielle  21:40  
side of the eyes. I got really stressed out when I'm rushing. get really stressed

Lindsay Miller  21:45  
out when I'm rushing.

Lauren Fonvielle  21:51  
What do you think stresses you out the most about it?

Lindsay Miller  21:55  
The fact that I can't get a handle on it. Okay, like it's worked on. But I'm still I still haven't don't have it sorted like, plan enough time for stuff.

Lauren Fonvielle  22:07  
Okay. I've worked on this before. I've worked on this before. I can't get a handle on it.

Lindsay Miller  22:16  
And I can't get a handle on it.

Lauren Fonvielle  22:20  
Under the nose, and it makes me feel stressed out.

Lindsay Miller  22:23  
And it makes me feel stressed out. I don't like being rushed. I don't like being rushed.

Lauren Fonvielle  22:32  
Is this something that's gone on for a long time for you, but you don't like being rushed?

Lindsay Miller  22:36  
I used to just be normal. And then I like was better at managing my time. And I realized like, oh, I don't have to be rushed all the time. But now when I get rushed, I'm like, dang, I don't want to do that again. You know?

Lauren Fonvielle  22:48  
Do you remember like a, like a time period when that shift started to happen?

Lindsay Miller  22:53  
When I started to get stressed again? Yeah. COVID Hmm. Okay. Like when I was trying to juggle, you know, like when I was trying to juggle all the things and be doing school and work and home management and dynamic management and everything, and all the things, juggling all the things. It's

Lauren Fonvielle  23:17  
really stressful. It's really stressful. And I don't like to be rushed.

Lindsay Miller  23:22  
I don't like to be rushed.

Lauren Fonvielle  23:25  
Scott worse with COVID got worse with COVID. And it's super stressful when I'm rushed. It's super stressful

Lindsay Miller  23:33  
when I'm rushed.

Lauren Fonvielle  23:37  
I don't like to be rushed.

Lindsay Miller  23:39  
I don't like to be rushed.

Lauren Fonvielle  23:41  
It stresses me out. Just pause there and take a deep breath in. So that was one round of tapping. And you can kind of see like I you know, I was in that example, I was kind of probing you asking you questions about how you're feeling. When you're doing this yourself, especially when you're new to it, you can really you can really just simply stay with one phrase or one even just one word like I'm really stressed. And you'll notice that your mind will start to go in different directions. Sometimes Sometimes it'll make sense. Sometimes it'll be you know, oh, I've got so much to do. I've got so much on my plate, you know, something that's happening in the current moment maybe, but sometimes your mind will maybe go to a memory of something that happened a long time ago, that you're that you're you don't think makes logical sense and, and your mind will probably try to explain it away like oh, that came up but that's not related to this right? I would just encourage you to explore that because more times than not, there is some sort of link to something that happened in the past that is causing the current feeling because we really we really have this way of layering things of different art the experiences So we've had in our lives are like different layers and one thing lays on top of the other and these things can can trigger things without us cognitively being aware of it. So how did that first round feel for you?

Lindsay Miller  25:13  
It was good. You know, it's interesting, as you're asking, I was just like, it felt light, my body felt light, when you're helping me understand, like, why this was stressful to me what components were part of it? And yeah, I could just sense like, the lightness at and when we would go to a different point, I would also feel like, just lighter, it felt like it just kept getting progressively lighter. Does that Yeah,

Lauren Fonvielle  25:38  
yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense. And sometimes, I think, you know, we think thoughts in our head over and over and over again. So taking the time to pause and allow ourselves to really hold space for those thoughts that we've been thinking, can, that in itself can really begin to make a shift. So allowing yourself to feel the stress, kind of inviting that in for a moment, which I know sometimes, you know, depending on the emotion that you're dealing with, can be can be a little scary for people like, oh, I don't want to I don't want to invite into stress, you know, but I promise you that by a holding space for it, it allows you to move through it because running away from it only works for so long, right? And and I think that's what we typically do, we run away from these feelings that we're having, because we don't, we don't want to deal with them. And we distract ourselves, you know, we don't distract ourselves by throwing ourselves into our work or throwing ourselves into doing stuff for our kids, or whatever it may be. It works for the short term, but then it creeps back up. And then usually it's more more intense. So allowing yourself to feel it will help you get through it that much faster.

Lindsay Miller  26:51  
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Well, and I think, too, there's so much value in, you know, in this example, someone else holding space for you to sit with it. You know, and I think a lot of times, we tried to do that on our own. And I think that having someone there who can offer steadiness and compassionate support, as we navigate some of the stuff in ourselves, that's hard to look at, it can be so helpful. So you know, like, in this example, I felt safe, saying what, you know, what was stressing me out, or what I was feeling anxious about. And it felt nice to have a guide. And I think as caregivers, sometimes we want to DIY everything, and I love that tapping has that DIY component, you know, and that you can just do it yourself, I also just want to speak to the value of creating compassionate connection where support can be offered, and you can be the receiver. You know, like, I was very clear, you were just holding space for me to have whatever I was experiencing, and you had capacity to like, let whatever I was, you know, gonna say come up. And there's so much to be said for having. Having that. So think yeah, so yes,

Lauren Fonvielle  27:55  
I couldn't agree with you more. And I think, I think an important thing to note too, is that when you are feeling the things and saying that things, sometimes it can all just feel the same, it can all feel overwhelming. And it's hard, when you're the one experiencing it to kind of pick out the pieces that that you need to focus on. And then that's like, you know, that's my job as the practitioner to kind of be able to spot Oh, well, you said that. And that seems really, that seemed really intense, or, you know, your body language shifted when you said that. And so then that, like helps us to direct where, where it is that you go. And you know, when I'm working one on one with people, it's you never know where where a session is going to go. And I have, I have one client that came to mind in particular, she's like, I just, you know, she's like, comes in with one thing that she wants to work on. And then it always leads leads somewhere else. And, and it always comes full circle. And it all makes sense. But having somebody to walk you through that is it can definitely be helpful. And I myself work with a practitioner for that very reason.

Lindsay Miller  28:57  
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Love that. Thank you. Yeah. Well, that was such a great experience and example. And I could really notice what you said about just bringing awareness to the experience instead of fighting it, some of the phrases that you were saying I was like, no, no, that's not me. No, no, I. But I think there's so much value, especially for kids and just like giving them a tool like this right and saying, okay, you don't have to be scared of feeling this because you're not going to be stuck in it. And I think a lot of times with kids, those big emotions can feel so scary for them because they think they're gonna get stuck there. And as adults, they're scary for us to watch or sit with because we're like, Where does this gonna go? What is it going to mean for them when they're 35? Are we you know, we, we spin a story or we don't have the capacity ourselves to sit with it. And so we just want to like, get them out of it. And I wrote We could appreciate how like as parents, it is a bit stressful to sit with a child when they're experiencing strong emotion. But acknowledging it, like you said, instead of shoving it down or denying it, like acknowledging and allowing space is the thing that allows us like access to the present moment, which is the only place we can make a difference. So if we don't like acknowledge what's going on and bring awareness to the fact that my kid is really having trouble with anxiety, I want to address this with my child, or my child is having panic attacks. This has never happened before. This feels scary to me. And I don't understand, you know, and I'm going to engage because that's where we're at. Right.

Lauren Fonvielle  30:44  
And I feel like I feel like with kids, too, I mean, with adults as well. But there's usually a physical component when we're talking about stress and anxiety and how that is showing it showing up in the body, whether it's stomach aches, or headaches or back aches, or whatever it may be. And sometimes that's the easiest place place to start. So even though even though my legs are shaky right now, you know, and just say, like, my shaky legs, my shaky legs and tap on tap on the sensation that they are feeling. And that's going to reduce the sensation. And when you calm the body, you calm the mind. So sometimes that's, that's a great place to start with.

Lindsay Miller  31:23  
I love that, yes, because a lot of times with kids too, they have a hard time placing it right, just like you said, as a practitioner, or as a parent, sometimes we can see things that they're they're not seeing. And that's not to say I'm a big fan of letting kids trust their intuition and themselves. But as parents, like, we might notice something about them that they're still placing. So if we're using words like high level anxiety, or you know, and they're not quite connecting with the felt sensation of that, like starting with how it feels in the body, or the physical manifestation is, I think, almost better a lot of times because then they know like, when my legs are shaky, I can do this. Whereas like, when I feel anxious, like when does anxious start What does is it when my stomach feels a little butterflies was when my chest is tight? Is it? Like what is that? What is the beginning of that for you? Like that's the trigger for them to like, Okay, start tapping, my legs are starting to shake,

Lauren Fonvielle  32:19  
right? No, exactly it makes, I think it makes it a little bit less scary. Because I know I think of my son. And when I'm like asking him questions about how he's feeling. He's very much. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. You know, that's the go to. That's the go to answer specifically emotionally. But if I'm asking him, what what sensations are you experiencing in your body? What are you noticing about your body? He's more apt to answer those questions. So it's just a nice doorway into into the next thing, you know, then what other what other thoughts arise? And sometimes he gets real talkative, but yeah, it's a good opening.

Lindsay Miller  33:01  
Yeah. Okay. So again, if somebody if a child is coming in, there's just starting to feel like Mom, I'm my breathing is getting really shallow, or, you know, like, I think they just I feel out of breath. And then you can just say, like, out of breath? Like, how would you just start tapping on the side of your hand, and then you move through the other points, the top of the head before the eyes under the eyes. So then you just move through all of those? And then what if the, what if the sensation you're seeing if it shifts? And then they're like, and now my legs are shaking, then you would just go through it again? Yep, the next sensation.

Lauren Fonvielle  33:37  
Exactly, it's very much, it's very much a process of connecting the dots. And we don't always know which direction or which dot we're going to, but allowing, allowing the person to lead allowing the child to lead with whatever comes up. So it's, it's like, you know, my legs are shaky. And then maybe it's, I'm nervous about the math test tomorrow, right? And so just seeing, seeing where it goes. And sometimes, you know, questions are necessary to to help them figure that figure that out, but sometimes it just happens on its own. And you can really begin to see those shifts, or even though, you know, I'm scared about the math test last time, it was fine. You know, like, I know, I know, I got through it, I got through it before I'll get through it again. But they begin to make those chips on their own. You don't even it's not like you're suggesting them, but they naturally go in that direction.

Lindsay Miller  34:39  
That makes a lot of sense. Well, and I love the work that Dan Siegel does around emotion and especially I think it's so relevant for kids, when, like when we're feeling an emotion that maybe we haven't processed one that's like, from a different experience that maybe was a little bit more charged. But if the current experience resembles that One at all, we can kind of tap into that emotion that supercharged, right? With a current experience. That's not as you know, it's not as important or not as much of an impact. But because it mirrors this other emotion that hasn't really found a place in us yet, then it brings all of that to the surface. Yeah. And so this feels like such a great tool for those moments, because I know there are some times because they'll be like, Why didn't even know why I acted that way. You know, like, I don't know why I got so stressed about that. But sometimes I think what's happening is it's tapping into something else, right? That I think of it like a conveyor belt, like if the emotions are on a conveyor belt, and then conveyor belt gets like stuck a little bit. And this emotions just kind of churning like Brenner. And it can't find a place like it's not integrated into our understanding. But in those moments, like you're describing, if we're tapping and doing something active, and those things come up, especially like, if kids are with a parent, or someone who cares about them or practitioner like you, then there's space for those to get integrated. So then the next time, right, that charge doesn't like light a fire under something that's like minimally anxiety inducing, because this big anxiety inducing thing. Did you know it finally landed somewhere?

Lauren Fonvielle  36:16  
Yeah, no, that's, that's 100%. Correct. And it makes me think about how this tool can be helpful for PTSD to for exactly those reasons, right, like, so if you had something happened, where you were in a car accident, and obviously, that was a very traumatic event. And now it's all these years later, but anytime you hear a loud a loud bang, your body is, is having that reaction as if it was happening, you know, the whole event is happening over all over again, even though it was years ago. So that can happen maybe on a smaller level, or a different level, with every every day type of things. But it's the same, the same idea of how it works with with PTSD. And I mean, this is a practice that's even being used by the VA now to help our veterans who have come back and are dealing with PTSD. So it's a, it's a simple, but very powerful tool that can help you feel calmer in your body. And, you know, we all deserve to feel feel calm and safe in our body. And this is, this is a way to help you get there.

Lindsay Miller  37:22  
Yeah, yeah, that's so powerful. I'm grateful for those examples. And for you sharing that, you know, the wide variety of places it's being used in, because I think that a lot of times in those moments, we think we have to fix it. Right? Again, we go back to this idea of parents wanting like, they don't want to hear about the time this happened to their kid, because they're worried their kid will then focus on it, or it'll become, you know, part of their experience right now. But a lot of times, what they just need is to integrate right. And in for more severe trauma, they obviously need a special support for that, like, whether it's a practitioner, like you who can kind of dive into it with them, whether it's a mental health practitioner, but I think that when memories or uncomfortable emotions come up as parents, all we really have to do you're saying is hold space, right? So as we're asking questions, we don't have to fix it, we don't have to do anything with it, except let it come up, we just have to be the space for the thing to come up, right. And I

Lauren Fonvielle  38:20  
think, you know, it can be very triggering for us as the as the mom to have our kid, you know, be going through a tough time in middle school, let's say. And then it brings back memories of when you had a tough time in middle school. And so it can be a tool not only that you use to help your child, but it can help you hold the space to allow you to have the feelings that you're having. That's being brought up by whatever the situation is at hand. And I think that when we take care of ourselves in that way, first, you know, it's the whole idea, like when you're on the plane, you put your your own oxygen mask on first, then we can really be there to to show up in and hold the space for them. But if we're not holding the space for ourselves, and creating that self care space and allowing, allowing us to go through it, it's gonna be that much more difficult to help your child with that.

Lindsay Miller  39:16  
Yes. Oh, all the payments to that. And then because it's the same, I mean, mindfulness is the same, right? If you're not living mindfully, if you're not practicing meditation or mindful, miss practice part of your day breathing, whatever, then it's, it's not effective to teach it right because you don't actually have the lived experience to hold space for someone else to be experiencing it or learning it. So talk to me about how as a parent, like where when would you put this into a day? So we've gone through all the practice we've gone through like the benefits and we understand this is something really important so as if for any caregivers or grownups listening right now or any kids. When do you say okay, do your practice on this every day so that when you need it, it's there for you like when you wake up when You're on your way to school when is your recommendation.

Lauren Fonvielle  40:02  
So I would say the best way to start a new habit is by attaching it to a habit that you already have. So if, for me, I often tell people tap when you're in the shower, right? Like you're in the shower, or typically, once a day, and give yourself give yourself a few minutes to just to just tap and breathe and decompress. I like to I like to tap before, before I meditate. And that's part of my my morning routine. And if you're if you're someone who struggles with meditation, because I know a lot of people that come to me say that they can't turn the monkey mind off, right? I feel like tapping is a wonderful tool to help you clear out some of the some of all those thoughts that are that are going in there acknowledging them, saying them out loud, I think that can be a big a big thing. Even if you hopefully you're by yourself when you're doing this, you know, you can always tap when you're in the office like us too. But the idea of saying it out loud and verbalizing out loud what's going on, there is something really powerful about that. So, you know, if you're, let's say worried about what's going on, in the day, you're worried about everything that you have to get done, or big project, taking a few minutes to, you know, talk out whatever the fear is, whatever the overwhelm is, and then just take a few minutes to either meditate or do some deep breathing afterwards. It'll be easier to quiet the mind once you've kind of allowed yourself to say all the things that we've been going through it for a while.

Lindsay Miller  41:32  
Yeah, that's great. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. Well, this has been so fun. I'm grateful for you sharing your wisdom with our audience, and so many great examples. Before we close. Can I ask you three questions that I asked podcast guests.

Lauren Fonvielle  41:47  
I'm excited for them.

Lindsay Miller  41:48  
Yes. What's your favorite food?

Lauren Fonvielle  41:51  
My favorite food is shrimp scampi.

Lindsay Miller  41:56  
Yeah, yeah. And then what is your favorite way to relax?

Lauren Fonvielle  42:02  
I love to take a bath. Get all the bubbles go on and do a little meditation while I'm in there. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  42:11  
And then what's something fun you like to do with your kids?

Lauren Fonvielle  42:16  
We I have been big into puzzles lately. That's been the fun thing and some paint by numbers too. Those are two of my faves.

Lindsay Miller  42:23  
I've done that in a while. That's a great I mean, Lauren, thank you. I think this is going to be supportive to so many people. Talk to us about where we can find out more about your work about working with you and about tapping.

Lauren Fonvielle  42:36  
Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on my website, which is mind shift with lauren.com. I'm going to be I have a masterclass that's available that is goes into more of the science and more of the details about how it works, why it works. And you can find that mind shift with lauren.com backslash masterclass. And, yeah, I would and if anybody has more questions, I'm always open to answering your questions. And I do offer free 30 minute consultations. And those, those can be booked at talk with lauren.com. So great.

Lindsay Miller  43:17  
Thank you again, this has been great.

Lauren Fonvielle  43:20  
Thank you so much for having me. This was fun.

Lindsay Miller  43:22  
Thanks so much for listening. I really loved Lauren's practical tips on how to use tapping to cuddle and feel a little more comfortable no matter what's going on around him. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to share it with anyone who would really appreciate it and benefit from it. And also I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a review. I read each one and I'm so grateful when you take the time to leave on. Thanks again for listening. Until next time!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai