Let's Get Real: Parenting Without Comparison

Lindsay Miller  0:23  
Hey there, this is Lindsey I'm so glad you're here. This week's episode is going to be a breath of fresh air for you if you have a tendency to compare yourself to other parents or caregivers, or if you have a tendency to compare your kids to other kids. Lisa Sugarman is the coolest I had the chance to sit down with her and it really just felt like we were old pals right off the bat because she gets you, you know, like she gets, what it's like to be in the trenches when it comes to parenting, and she has such down to earth wisdom. I'm so excited to share her words on the episode. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller and I'm delighted you're here to make your life a little less stressful. This week's episode is brought to you by the essential calendar which is a beautiful 18 by 24 wall calendar with fun accessories. That makes it fun to get organized for summer. The summer break calendar will take you from Labor Day to Memorial Day so you can see a whole summer at a glance. You can find it exclusively at www.thecentralcalendar.com and listeners can use use code Stress Nanny or 25% off. 

I am so excited to introduce my guest today Lisa Sugarman. Lisa is a parenting author and nationally syndicated humor columnist and a radio show host she writes the syndicated opinion column. It is what it is, and is the author of How to Raise Perfectly Imperfect Kids and Be Okay With It. On tying parenting, parenting anxiety and life it is what it is all available on Amazon at Barnes and Noble, and everywhere books are sold. Lisa is also the co host of the weekly radio show life unfiltered on North Shore one Oh 4.9 FM, and a regular contributor on Health Line parenthood grown and flown today, parents Thrive global care.com little things and more content now. She's also a survivor of suicide loss and is a vocal advocate for suicide awareness and prevention. Lisa lives with her husband and two daughters just north of Boston. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me it is an honor to have you here.

Lisa Sugarman  2:25  
Oh, it's the honor is very mutual. I'm so excited that we found each other.

Lindsay Miller  2:30  
Yeah, me too. One of the things that first drew me to Lisa's work when we were introduced was this image of flip flop with an upside down ice cream cone. And I think it's such a great illustration of your down to earth approach to everything.

Lisa Sugarman  2:50  
I really appreciate that a lot. And it's funny because you're talking about the banner on my website, which is most often where people see that image. And it also carries over on to my most recent books, my publisher kind of adapted that image for the book, which I think works perfectly. But you know, it's funny, I just tried to capture, I guess, in a visual way, parenthood, because it's supposed to be this lovely and beautiful and charming and sweet experience until everything goes upside down and you go off the rails and your kids go off the rail and the ice cream falls off the cone right onto your feet. So that just kind of set it all to me when I saw that picture. And we just went with it. And it has stayed so true all this time.

Lindsay Miller  3:39  
Yes. Now you and I had a chance to get acquainted but share with our audience kind of how you got started along this path. And what what drew you to this really authentic message around parenting?

Lisa Sugarman  3:52  
Yeah, I you know, I've been writing like you and I talked about a little bit ago. Everything I've done is really been pretty organic. I've done. I did a lot of writing in my life. Pretty what I'm doing now I started writing for newspapers and magazines out of college and kind of took that track for a period of time and then became a mom and was home with my girls. I have two daughters, 21 and 24. And I just I guess it was just like a draw or a calling. Something said reach out to your paper and write some stuff and not even with any things specific in mind. I had had some prior relationships with the editorial staff and and I just contributed some stuff and they liked it. And they asked for more. And I ended up with a column that was branded, it is what it is and it was just picked up all over the place and ended up all over the country in all these local community newspapers and that led to opportunities to connect with and write for a lot of really incredible platforms. A lot of them you already mentioned you And that really sweet intro. And I ended up working with a publisher who produces content that makes families happy, familiars publishing out in California, and then ended up. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, my co author and I, from my last book ended up on the radio. And we've started a radio show life unfiltered. And it has just been a blast. And I just, I guess, what really drew me to all of this in the first place is just, you know, having two children and working for so many years in the school system. And being a teacher and a coach. And in administration, I had all these different hats, and I had all these different windows into what was happening with with kids in the classroom and parents in the family system. And the one thing that that really just like jumped out at me, every time I thought about parenthood, especially even looking at myself, and the way we were parenting our kids, is just there's so much unnecessary stress. And there's so much competition, and there's so much of this drive for perfection. And kids just have so much incredible pressure on them to begin with, because of their peers and expectations in the classroom. And then they also have it from their parents and these kids were getting crushed. And it just the more I saw it, the more it just occurred to me that we're doing it all wrong. We're doing it all wrong expecting to put our kids it's like the, you know, round peg square hole analogy, it doesn't work. It doesn't work for the kid, it doesn't work for the parent who's trying to do it to the kid. So the more i i wrote, the more feedback I got from people saying, I totally relate to that. I totally do that. I shouldn't do that. What can I do? How can I fix this, and I'm not I'm not a professional, I'm not I have no letters after my name. I'm not a therapist, or a counselor. I am a mom who spent a million hours on soccer fields, I worked as a teacher for many years, over a decade, got my own two kids and, and it's just my opinion, and it's fun. But it's I think it's a lot of other people's opinion, too, that we need to just embrace that. That perfectly imperfect oneness, because it's within that space where all the magic happens. So that's where, where I, that's where I've been, and that's how I got here.

Lindsay Miller  7:21  
Yeah, that's such a great way of putting it. That's where the magic happens. And I think we share that concern around the stress levels that families face, and that parents face in trying to perpetuate a culture that's just not sustainable for children or adults. And I appreciate it earlier, you were saying these kinds of conversations are happening in pockets, you know that the kinds of things that you share, and the messages that you write about and, you know, speak on, it's the kind of thing you're talking about, you know, one on one with your girlfriend or another mom on the soccer field, or you know what I mean, you're just, you're having those conversations after the PTA meeting. But it's not a breaking out into like a more global conversation where we can address it and kind of just own what's going on culturally, and then work to fix it in really actionable ways. And so I'm really excited that we can dive into this today and talk about how to, you know, parent imperfectly and be okay with imperfect children and work through the moments where actually that's where we can have the biggest impact is when mistakes come up when things don't go as planned. And when we have the opportunities to build resilience?

Lisa Sugarman  8:26  
Well, that's it, you just said it. That's the magic word. And that's and that's how we do that we don't, we don't allow our children to become self sufficient, and to think for themselves and advocate for themselves. If we're hovering, if we're the helicopter parent, or the the lawnmower parent, we we have to step back. And it's hard. It's really hard, because we love our kids, and we want to see them succeed. But we forget in those moments, that they're not always going to have us on their shoulder in that way, we're not always going to be the one stepping in and and, you know, helping to fix the problem. We've got to empower them with those tools and those skills to do it themselves. And that means they've got to fall down a bunch and they've got to, you know, fail a bunch. And, you know, I hate seeing my kids do that too. But what comes on the other side of that failure, or that disappointment is strength and resilience and, and the ability to pivot when you need to pivot. And the only way to do that is to kind of, you know, give them the wheel and let them drive. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  9:34  
yes, definitely. And one of the things that I talk a lot about here on the podcast is this idea that, like eventually they are going to fail, they're going to hit a wall, they're going to hit something that they do not know how to overcome and as hard as it is to watch. I would much rather have that happen in my house where I can like scaffold their learning, provide support, help them get back up and didn't have that, you know, then protect them from that, you know, to the extent possible while they're in my house and then have that happen, when they don't have the same level of support, they don't have the resource of my husband and I there to, you know, give ideas and offer strength or just be sad and cry with her, you know, whatever it is, there's, there's just like, so much strength that can come in being okay with those moments in

Lisa Sugarman  10:26  
childhood. Yeah, and that's the whole point, that that is the whole point of us having these 18 years, or however long we have our children under our roof like that, it's to lay that, that foundation, and you know, to frame that, that whole, that whole experience of, of, of living and learning and growth, for them with them, it's, it's, it's to be there, alongside all those teachable moments, because we're the ones who have to point out the lessons and explain, you know, what to do in these situations, when they're at a loss, and they don't know how to handle it, that's our job. And, and also, one of the most important things that we can do during that time, is not just to, you know, sit with them and educate them on, you know, what's the best way what's the most useful, what like those are, that's important, they need to see us going through it, they that time is also time for them to see us modeling the stuff that we're teaching them because it's really kind of hollow, if you're just sitting there talking to talk to your kids, and you're not modeling any of the same behavior. Well, that's, that's kind of, that's not really helpful. It's kind of empty, we have to be doing those things in tandem with everything that we're saying and the way that we're educating them. And, and all that good stuff happens when you know, they're under our roof. And it's a damn good thing. We have 18 years because it takes a really long time to do that.

Lindsay Miller  12:03  
You know that the truth? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that you point that out that the growth is in tandem, because there were a lot of years when I put my own growth kind of off to the side, in order to focus solely on parenting, you know, and in order to really just be there 100%. And I think that there's so much value in that. And it's fantastic. And also the lessons that I've been able to teach by falling on my face in front of my kid, as I tried hard things are far and away, like you're saying more impactful than the ones where I was giving her an idea about what that might look like in her life, if that ever happened, or when she was going through it like I have. I'm in the trenches with her in so many ways. And so, like, I feel like my some of my businesses are an adolescent stage as she's an adolescent stage. And I'm like, I get it the awkwardness that you know.

Lisa Sugarman  12:56  
Yeah, well, I mean, those, you know, those moments where they see our, our humaneness is so important. And you said something a second ago, that really resonated with me, you talked about how, you know, you kind of put your own needs and your own growth, kind of in a in a drawer for a little bit. And we all do that. And I think, not to say that dads don't but I think moms do much more so more more regularly. And on a more long term basis than than dads do. And, you know, it's the it's the whole oxygen mask on the airplane analogy. We are no good to our kids, or our spouse or our partner, anyone else in our family or our life. If we're not taking care of us how the hell are we going to take care of anybody else? So it's, it's so important that we, we split that priority between them and us. And, you know, you we talk about tandem growth. That's how it happens. I mean, I can't even tell you as my girls have grown. And now of course, there are adult women and they're out and they're working and thriving in their life. And we're so we feel so blessed. I have learned so much in the past, I would say, five to 10 years since since they really became adults. And that growth never stops. We don't we don't plateau, doesn't matter that we're the parents or we may start out ahead of the game. I can't even tell you how much I've learned from both of my children at this point. So it's when you think of it that way that everybody is is really kind of progressing and learning and growing all at the same time just in kind of slightly different ways. It's it's powerful, I think. And and it puts us right where we need to be which is right in the center of kind of that hub of family life, which is that you're always a mom. They're always a mom, they're always your Kids, and there's always something new to learn.

Lindsay Miller  15:04  
That's so great. I love I love that that was a great phrase, you always Mom, it's always something new to learn like that. You can connect with them in those ways into adulthood too. And I feel like there's some stagnation that can happen if your only role with them is mom, you know, like, if you're just, and then that you outgrow some of those relational tethers. You know, like, if you're not comrades, comrades in growth, and if you're not working towards your own, like unique gifts and skills being proliferated that like there comes a point where you're, it's harder to relate. Whereas if you're doing that side by side, your relatability, just increases, like you just said, because you're growing together, you're learning together, and you can continue to foster that relationship in new and different ways. Because you've been doing that all along, as opposed to kind of defining it exclusively as one thing. And then being a bit at a loss when that one thing shifts.

Lisa Sugarman  16:02  
Right. Well, I mean, it's an ebb and flow. And it should always be an ebb and flow, both with our kids and with us. I think that's just, you know, that's, first of all, that's the nature of life. And it's certainly I think it's the nature. And the real premise of parenthood is that we're not just growing our kids, we're also growing as parents, we don't know what the hell we're doing. Like, do you remember when you're, when your daughter was born? You looked at your husband, and you were like, What the hell am I supposed to do with this? Like, what makes me qualified? Like, there's no tests? There's no, I mean, yeah, no, you take everything class. And that's pretty much it. And I gave birth, I went early, I didn't even get to finish the birthing class. So like, I missed a whole bunch of stuff that I probably screwed up. Since then, no. We're learning as we go to, you know, on day one, when they start, we start, you know, day one, as parents. So you know, it's an interesting journey, for sure.

Lindsay Miller  17:01  
Yeah. Well, and I think it speaks to one of the themes that you talked about in your work, which is reframing expectations, right. And you talk about this idea of giving yourself the opportunity to look at something in a different light. And the way you've just kind of unpacked parenthood for us has done that, right has kind of just shifted it ever so slightly, but in a way that significantly changes, what we can expect from ourselves what we expect from the relationship and from our kids. And I think that those taking those opportunities to reframe are so powerful, what are some other expectations that you, you speak about reframing? I think the expectation

Lisa Sugarman  17:39  
that you're you're going to be, you know, the perfect parent. I mean, that's the, that's the overarching theme of almost everything that I write about in this most recent book. With Deb, it's, it's this idea that we can't make mistakes, we can't drop any balls, we have to have all the answers, we have to be able to measure up to all the other parents, our kids have to be able to compete with all the other kids, like, That's crap. It's just such a load of crap. It's a myth, it's not true, and it's toxic. And once we realize that, we can strip all of those expectations away, and just, like stop looking at the other kids stop looking, especially at the other parents and just focus on what you have to offer your child as their parent what you believe to be the best for your, for your child, and whatever the situation is, and cut loose the other stuff because it's just, you know, it's, it's like, you know, carrying around a cannonball, you can't move around with it, it's a it's a waste of energy and time. And you know, you can't, you can't live a successful life as a parent by paying all your attention, putting all your attention to what everybody else is doing as a parent, that doesn't work for your, for your family system or family unit. It may be very successful for your next door neighbor, or your cousin or your friend, but it's not going to apply necessarily and translate to what you're doing in your own home. So I think that, to me, that's the biggest thing. Just cut loose of any expectations or preconceptions that you may have had of what parenthood is, and, and just, you know, just just kind of let it be what it is for you and you're in your own unit.

Lindsay Miller  19:38  
Yeah, thank you. That was really beautiful. And I think that one of the reasons I'm so passionate about mindfulness, especially for families is for those moments, right is being able to know in those moments like whose expectations are these are they might, are they my neighbors, and my you know, like is it because of what my my kids teacher said last week can now I'm worried because I think she thinks I'm this or you know, like, whose expectations are playing in this moment. And more often than not, it's not ours, like you're saying. And so being able to filter, let's talk a lot about the thought River, being able to like filter what's going through our thought River and only pick the thoughts that are like our own actually. And then the ones that are supportive to our growth and the place that we want to go in our life and in our family. Those are the things that we need to pay attention to. But so often, our thought river is cluttered by so many of those things, right? Whether it's cultural, whether it's familial, like, expectation load, and our thought river is pretty heavy. And like I said, it is like, like a cannon ball, if we go with that analogy, because it's just too much to carry as one person, and then also be fully present in those precious moments that we have every day.

Lisa Sugarman  20:50  
Well, that's the thing. And I'm glad that you said presence because I've always tried to be in as you know, in as much as I've been able to be tried to be present, and, and mindful about how I parent what I say what I do, have it be authentic to who I am, or who my husband and I are together as a team. And it's really, really hard because there's that comparison trap that we fall into. And we are absolutely our own worst enemy. Where that trap is concerned, because we start to fixate on, on how everybody else around us is doing things and the decisions that they're making, the things that they have and the things that they wear and it just like it spiraled, how do I look? How do I look in the pickup line? Why? How come I can't get my shit together? And why am I wearing joggers and everybody else's wearing, you know, like a full outfit. I mean, it just goes in 1000 different directions. And it's like a runaway train. And then all of a sudden, you're just so completely insecure, and fragile, because you're so you're so you know, upset at yourself, that you're not functioning at the same level that the people around you are functioning. But the funny thing is, and this is what you and I were talking about a little while ago. The funny thing is, everybody has the fears, everybody has the insecurities. And those are the things that everybody is having these little teeny tiny conversations about. And a lot of people are afraid to acknowledge it or say it out loud or say it in public, because they feel like they're going to be shamed, or they feel like they're inadequate, and they're not, they're not a great parent or role model, or I can't do this job. This is just like, I can't do it. And that's the irony, everybody is thinking the same thing. And we just need to bring it out into the open and say, It's okay, if you're in your pajamas and the pickup line you got your kid to school every day is you know, every day is a challenge. And some days you meet that challenge in your PJs, and some days you are fully dressed. That's it. You know, like my kid got fed today? Yeah, getting mom for the wind, you know, great. That's, that's what it should be about. It's the small wins.

Lindsay Miller  23:12  
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, and that's where, again, this this analogy that I ended up using a lot of the thought were like, it feels like we're drowning, right, like we can drown and expectations or those comparisons so easily. And it really does feel like we're just like, trying to keep our head above water because we're getting like buffeted around by all this stuff that's in the river. And I think we don't realize we can the river is actually such that we can stand up and like walk to the side, sit on a rock and watch those thoughts go by and decide like, I'm not actually going to compare myself to that mom with the clean car. I'm not actually going to compare myself to that mom dressed to the nines. I'm not actually like, I'm not going to choose those thoughts. You know, I'm gonna let him go down the river. I acknowledge them. They're like, Hey, that was comparison. I'm not gonna listen to it. But so often, like you said, it just gets to a point where we can spiral in it and then at the end of the day, it feels so small because there was so much that we compared ourselves to where we didn't show up the way someone else did. And we don't give ourselves credit for all the ways that we did show up.

Lisa Sugarman  24:17  
Exactly. Well that's the thing. Okay, that that is first of all, I love love your river analogy. I love it. It's perfect. You know, it's like when you just said you kind of beat yourself up for the things that you know all the things that you got wrong we don't celebrate what we got right I feel like that my kids will kill me if I if they hear me say this. So I may never tell them that I that I did this interview. But it's like when you do 10,000 things right for your kids and the lunches are made and the clothes are clean and you've been there you're on time pickup and you make one tiny teeny tiny little mistake like maybe you were late for two seconds or or you whatever the issue was, that's the thing they nail you on every single time. But 10,000, other things went perfectly. And it's you know, and it's that way in our own heads in terms of, you know, our day to day, and you know how successful we are, as we compare ourselves to other people. And it's just a shame. And I do it too. And it's stupid. And I wish I didn't, and I do it an awful lot less. I mean, I'm, like, you know, creeping up on my mid 50s. Now, and, you know, my girls are older, and I have no time for that anymore. So I really have gotten pretty good at just like cutting that crap loose. But it was, it's, it's been a constant work in progress to be able to do that. And I feel bad for the people that I see out there. And I encounter and I talked to, and I work with who can't let it go. And it dictates everything. And they can't be in the moment, and they can't enjoy the thing, or the child's show, or whatever it is, because they're so fixated on everything else that's happening around them. So we've got to keep chipping away at this with people, we've got to keep having these conversations, like the ones that you and I are having right now and making them more mainstream and saying them out in the open, because that's how people realize. And it's happening. I mean, you see, I see a transformation in the world, it's happening, where people are, you know, embracing all the parts of themselves and learning to love them. But we need we need more a

Lindsay Miller  26:35  
lot more. Yeah, I agree. And one of the things that I love the most about sharing this message in particular is the moment when and it takes time, sometimes six months, sometimes a year, sometimes a year and a half. But the moment when there's less energy spent, like beating ourselves up, and more energy spent enjoying our time with our kids in whatever way that manifests in this moment, whether it's screaming and crying, whether it's like, you know, a stellar save on the soccer field, whatever it is, like being able to just be really present in our moments, because we're not like spinning through all those thoughts and the the energy and the opportunity, creativity, the joy that emerges once we can start to get a handle on that process, like you mentioned, like, I do this less than I used to, I'm getting better, like this is not a pattern that's moving in a negative direction anymore. Like I've switched it, and I'm moving in a positive direction with it. Those are the moments that are so powerful to me, because I see parents just kind of light up. And I'm sure you do, too, where they're like, Oh, that was like, because I don't have to carry that around anymore. Like what do I get to do now?

Lisa Sugarman  27:45  
Yeah, it frees it frees a lot of space, we've got a lot of space inside us, we have an incredible amount of capacity, for gratitude, and for good and for joy. And yet we choose to fill up all those spaces with such such unproductive, stupid stuff. And, and, you know, I talk about this often, because I love talking about gratitude and, and the benefits of, of keeping yourself in a state of gratitude. We can't always be you can't always be happy. We can't always be all the things. But it's like when you are in this state of gratitude. It's very, very difficult to be in any other state. It's very difficult to be salty, or bitter or annoyed or whatever it is. And it's much easier to be present and to be grounded and to be right here right now. So that's the thing that that I try to talk a lot about with, with parents that I have conversations with them, like you know what, if you put yourself in that state of mind, just stop, just stop what you see. Feel yourself, getting overwhelmed with with the negativity and the comparisons and all those things like take a hot second, step back, backpedal, and just say, wait a minute, what like what am I grateful for in this moment? And that immediately will shut down everything. It's like, you know, it's like the antidote. You know, it's like the antidote to to irritation is gratitude. And that's, that's what we have to do more often. And when I do it, that's, that's it. I'm all I'm all in. And it's a game changer. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  29:34  
that's so fantastic. The antidote, the antidote to irritation is gratitude. It's so true, though, whenever we can make that shift. It does bring such a change. And I think the change is physiological too, because we get like definitely response going, where we're just like, oh, so anxious and uptight about how this is right now, like this moment that I mean, and when we can have gratitude it just like loosens all of it and we can be soft and just Just responsive instead of irritated and reactive.

Lisa Sugarman  30:04  
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Miller  30:07  
So one of the other themes that you have, and it tethers to this conversation that we've been having is to focus more on EQ than IQ. And I think, yep. When we can stop comparing, because I think IQ is this measure that sometimes we, like we're all familiar with, we have these metrics of what's important for a kid to know how smart they are, how accomplished they are, and looking at their EQ instead, really does offer offer us the opportunity to shift. So can you go into that? What EQ is for people who aren't familiar with that? And then kind of share some of your messaging around that?

Lisa Sugarman  30:42  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, for such a long time, all the talk, surrounded IQ, IQ, IQ, you know that everything revolved around your intelligence quotient, how you did on the test, or you know, the the exam, and what your test score was, and your grades and standardized testing, and what that only measures a person's ability to perform academically. That's, that is what that is what an IQ test does. But nobody ever considered how valuable our EQ was, or our emotional quotient. And that's what EQ refers to, it's your emotional quotient. In fact, a lot of people didn't even know what that was like, that was coined, that term was coined, really, like in the early 1990. So it's like a, it's a fairly new concept. You know, and there are definitely people who support, maybe, maybe support one over the other. But as far as I personally am concerned, you know, that EQ is one of the most underrated types of intelligence that we can develop as human beings, you know, it's, it's our ability to look somebody in the eye and have a conversation, it's our ability to relate with them in an emotional way. It's your people skills, it's your ability to be a good friend, or a good listener, compassionate. And, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter what someone's IQ is, if that person doesn't have the capacity to collaborate with the person that they're working with, or to have a conversation with the person that they're dealing with at that doesn't make a difference. Or if they can't empathize with the people around them like that intelligence is great, but it will only carry you so far, if you can't match it with those other human skills. So, you know, I mean, all of them together are critical life skills. I mean, obviously, IQ is important. It's valuable. But, I mean, personally, I think that those emotional skills will take us much further. And this is what we wrote about in our book. I think that those emotional skills will take us much further than book smarts, ever will, really. And, I mean, ideally, the balance, the idea is to have a strong balance of both in your life. But if somebody ever asked me to pick one over the other, I would, I would say, I want my kid to have a high EQ, like, hands down, no questions asked, because I think that you those are things that are they're learned, but they're learned in a different way. I mean, you can study and study and study and you can, you can raise your you can raise your IQ, but you you know, the the emotional awareness, that kind kindness, the empathy, the gratitude, those things. I think those are more inherited, those are those are more, you're born with that to a certain degree. So that's, that's kind of the the EQ versus IQ. Issue is broken down and kind of simple terms. But I'm the one on the EQ side, like waving that flag.

Lindsay Miller  34:04  
Yeah, thanks for clarifying it in a way that was so relatable. And I think it brings us first full circle back to our conversation at the beginning around resilience, and letting children struggle and fall and fail and have a hard time because those are the moments when we teach that, right? Like, those are the moments we model it and we teach it and we share practices in our household or we, you know, bring gratitude in daily or whatever it is like, those are the ways that we teach emotional intelligence. And we do it in simple moments every day. And those simple moments add up. And so the moments when we feel like wow, that didn't go well, or that was a disaster. Like in all reality. You were having an emotional intelligence moment, right? Like you were having where you were teaching something that's a life skill that it's not going to come to full maturity for a while, but just your steady investment in the that skill. So throughout your parenting journey throughout my parenting journey, those, it pays big dividends, like you're saying later on, as our kids are grown, and as they're connecting, and as we see them start to launch in ways that are confident, and ways that, you know, like you said, they can connect and collaborate. And you leverage the intelligence that they do have in really incredible ways when they have, like those two tethered together.

Lisa Sugarman  35:27  
Yeah, yeah, I love. I love what you just said about how it's just I forget how you phrased it just now, but it is so important to tether those two, those two things together, because you really, I mean, they work best hand in hand. And, you know, it's it, like you said it, it takes a period of time. It's there's a long runway, a really, really long runway, and we need it because it you know, there's a lot of trial and error involved in, in developing these these skill sets. And, you know, pointing these situations out and internalizing what these things, these experiences. And these skills and emotions mean, so yeah, I I think the goal is definitely to mesh the two of them together the best that we can.

Lindsay Miller  36:24  
Yeah, I'm there with you that waving the emotional intelligence flag. I'll get mine out.

Lisa Sugarman  36:28  
Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  36:32  
Before we close, this has been so fun. Thank you again, I've loved every minute. Oh, my pleasure. So if I, before we close, can I ask you three questions that I asked. Yes. Yeah, of course. Sure. Hey, what's your favorite food?

Lisa Sugarman  36:46  
Pizza from Palm Springs pizza in Green Acres. Green Acres, Florida. It's pizza in general. And I'm going to be very specific. It's Palm Springs pizza. It's in a strip mall in

Lindsay Miller  36:58  
Green Acres, Florida. Maximum, write that down.

Lisa Sugarman  37:02  
And don't write it down. I don't want anyone else going. That's my place. Lindsey. Nevermind.

Lindsay Miller  37:11  
What is your favorite way to relax? I,

Lisa Sugarman  37:16  
I do an awful lot of yoga practice an awful lot of yoga and meditation. And it's a really, really important part of my daily practice. So it's, it's how I start every day. I've been doing it for decades. The Yoga piece I've been doing for decades, the meditation piece I've been doing for the last several years. And that's become almost as important to me, and almost as powerful for me as the yoga piece. And that's always been my default to to do those two things as a way of kind of grounding and centering.

Lindsay Miller  37:53  
Love it. I agree. I'm not that I need to agree on your favorite way to relax, but I just know

Lisa Sugarman  37:59  
you do. I love that you do.

Lindsay Miller  38:02  
Second, those practices for anyone who's listening is like, you know, I really need to try that. Like, please try it. It's worth it. It's worth it. Totally. And then a funny story from childhood or from your parenting years.

Lisa Sugarman  38:15  
Oh, wow. Okay, so I was going to tell you a story from my own childhood. But when you just said parenting years, I just thought of a story that actually did end up making it into my book. And it's probably my proudest parenting moment. I personally think it's hilarious. My daughter did not. So when my when my husband used to do a lot of traveling when the girls were young. So there always be a day or two of the week that he was away and you happen to be away. And for some reason, my, my then really angsty little tween daughter, my youngest daughter decided to become a Doorslammer. And we didn't do door slamming in our house. We weren't yellers. We didn't end it just we didn't. That wasn't our vibe. All of a sudden, she comes out of her bedroom, and she's pissed about something, she slams her door and I get up and my office at that time was right outside her door. So I get up and I walk over and like, hey, so that probably just like flew out of your hand. Right? And she makes me feel itchy and no, didn't. I meant to do that. I was like, Well, okay, cool. So don't do it again. Because if you do it again, like we don't slam doors here. Flash forward three or four more slams. And I finally say, Okay, look like this is we're not doing this. So I just need you to know that if you'd slam it again. You're really going to hate what happens. So don't you have the choice right now. Don't make the wrong choice. I hadn't even sat down in a chair again. Bam. door slams. I never said a word. Walked into the garage. Open the toolbox, grabbed a flathead screwdriver, walked back to my daughter's room popped off the hinges Hold the door under my arm. She's looking at me like full lipping out. What are you doing? What are you and I took the door and I said, this door will now be in the garage until dad gets home. Well, how will they sleep? I'm like, What do you mean? How will you sleep, you'll sleep in your bed, you just don't have a door. I walk, never slam the door again for three days, and she never slammed the door again.

Lindsay Miller  40:24  
Doors are a privilege.

Lisa Sugarman  40:26  
They are a privilege. They are a privilege. And you know, I'll give you maybe two three slams. But I have my limits,

Lindsay Miller  40:34  
you get to the fourth one, it's over. That's it,

Lisa Sugarman  40:37  
it's done. I am not crossing over to four. So that was that was my funny parenting moment.

Lindsay Miller  40:43  
That's a good story, I will tell us more about where people can find you. Because that's again, just one of the funny things in your work. So your books, your radio show, help us know how listeners can connect?

Lisa Sugarman  40:55  
Yeah. So we've actually we hit pause on the radio show for a little bit. We're reinventing it and trying to do a different format, but all of them are archived, and they're still very, very much alive and well and being listened to all over iTunes and on iHeartRadio. If you do I heard podcasts, you can find the radio show it's life unfiltered. And you can find every single thing that I probably have ever done at least sugarman.com. If you go to Amazon, you can just search my name, Lisa Sugarman, you can find all my books. I'm on Instagram at Lisa underscore Sugarman. I'm also on Facebook at the Lisa Sugarman. And I think one other thing that I don't even think I told you about is that I also moderate a group that kind of combines everything that I do. It's a group called the vomit booth, and it's on Facebook. And the idea is that anyone with a family or in a relationship deals with the junk, the stuff, the joy, the whatever that we deal with every day, can can come to this group and laugh, cry, Bond, share, it's a super highly active group. And I will always be there to hold your hair back when you curl up everything that you need to get out of your system. So anybody can join. And that's also you can find a link for that on my website.

Lindsay Miller  42:22  
So glad you mentioned that I actually had come across it in your work. And I was, again laughing when I read the part about holding.

Lisa Sugarman  42:30  
Yeah, it's just the only way I can think of it like we're all friends. We're all dealing with the same, you know, kinds of stuff. And sometimes you just you just need that, that buddy to hold your hair back.

Lindsay Miller  42:44  
The truth is the truth. Well, thank you again for being here. And I really appreciate all that you shared and the way that you helped us to reduce stress. By reframing expectations, noticing moments, we can build resilience, and really just tuning in to the opportunities inherent in parenthood without having so much stress about the expectations that weigh us down.

Lisa Sugarman  43:03  
Well, I appreciate having the chance to come on and chat with you and your community. And I just I had a blast. So thank you. Thanks, Lisa.

Lindsay Miller  43:14  
I don't know about you. But I always appreciate reminders that struggles and like the moments that are bright and shiny in family life are actually the moments where beautiful things can happen and where kids and adults can learn. And you know, where things eventually can work out. Because sometimes I can have a little bit of narrow vision around that. So I always love having conversations with people who, you know, are there to remind us like Lisa did today, hey, those are actually the best parts. Those are the parts where everybody's learning and growing and the parts when you can fall on your face and laugh about it together. That's actually going to be some of the most memorable stuff when it comes to you know, family life memories. So I hope there were some little gems you could take away from this one. As always, I'm grateful you're here to listen. If you have a minute to rate the podcast or review it on whatever platform you listen, I would really appreciate it. If there's a something in this episode that would benefit someone you know or love. Please feel free to share. Until next time!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai