Feb. 19, 2026
Rewriting The Inner Voice
If your inner voice is running you ragged, you’re not alone. We sit down with therapist, author, and YouTube creator Shannon Petrovich to unpack how negative self-talk drives daily stress, why childhood “templates” pull us toward toxic dynamics, and how to rebuild from the inside out with values, boundaries, and self-trust. Shannon’s trauma-informed approach translates complex psychology into practical steps parents and caregivers can use right away.
We dig into the first domino: the way you speak to yourself. Shannon shows how journaling surfaces old stories, then helps you replace catastrophic, all-or-nothing thoughts with character-based truths. From there, we explore how to recognize whether a relationship needs better communication—or whether you’re facing disrespect, gaslighting, or weaponized vulnerability. You’ll learn what “slow love” looks like, how to separate intensity from intimacy, and why trusting yourself is more protective than trying to read or fix others.
We also break down the brain’s alarm system in plain language. When emotion fuels survival mode, your rational mind goes offline. Shannon shares simple regulation tools—walks, music, mindfulness—that bring you back to center so you can make clear choices. We talk boundaries that actually work, the “pause” that prevents over commitment, and the real markers of reciprocity in friendships, co-parenting, and at work. If you’ve ever wondered, “Is this just a communication gap or is this unhealthy?” this conversation offers concrete cues and next steps.
Shannon’s resources include her bestselling book Out of the Fog, Into the Clear and her channel Therapist Talks: Thrive Beyond Narcissism, plus coaching and a masterclass for deeper guidance. Join us to replace people-pleasing with presence, trade the illusion of togetherness for genuine connection, and model calm, confident boundaries for your kids.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs steadier ground, and leave a quick review. Your support helps more families build calm, confidence, and connection.
Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks and playful laugh. When she's not cheering on her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes.
To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here.
To review the podcast click here.
00:00 - Welcome And Guest Introduction
03:20 - Shannon’s Path To Therapy And Outreach
06:45 - Why Self-Talk Drives Stress
11:20 - Journaling To Unlearn Old Templates
16:50 - Building Compassion And Real Self-Esteem
21:05 - Boundaries And The Domino Effect
25:20 - Learning To Trust Yourself First
29:20 - Calming The Brain’s Alarm System
33:20 - Communication Gaps Versus Disrespect
37:20 - Friendships, Overcommitment, And The Pause
41:00 - Resources, Coaching, And Closing Encouragement
43:26 - Show Outro And Listener Invitation
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Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where we take the overwhelm out of parenting and help kids and parents build calm, confidence, and connection.
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I'm your host, Lindsay Miller, kids' mindfulness coach and cheerleader for busy families everywhere.
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Each week we'll explore simple tools, uplifting stories, and practical strategies to help your child learn emotional regulation, resilience, and self-confidence, while giving you a little more peace of mind too.
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I'm so glad you're here.
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My guest today is Shannon Petrovich.
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She's a therapist, author, and YouTube creator who earned her bachelor's degree from Bowdoin College and her master's in social work from the University of Connecticut.
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She earned her clinical licenses in social work and substance abuse counseling and is a board-certified diplomat in clinical social work.
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Her new book, Out of the Fog, Into the Clear, Journaling to Help You Heal from Toxic Relationships, has attained Amazon bestseller status in self-help for abuse, codependency, and personal transformation.
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On her YouTube channel, Therapist Talks, she shares insights, information, perspectives, and strategies on a wide range of relationship and mental health topics.
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With a very trauma-informed, strength-based approach, she seeks to help people see the old stories that are in their way and to fully become the person they were created to be.
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Shannon, thank you so much for joining me.
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Thanks so much for having me, Lindsay.
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I'm excited we could connect.
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We were just talking offline.
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This interview has been a couple of years in coming.
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And so we've been at odds in terms of our scheduling.
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But Shannon is somebody I really wanted to learn from.
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And so I'm really excited we could make the interview happen.
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So yeah, thank you again for being here.
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Let's get started with maybe a bit of background.
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Can you help us connect with your story by sharing how you came to be a social worker?
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What prompted you to follow that path?
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Oh, that's an interesting question, Lindsay.
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I think that I always wanted to help people.
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Both my mom and dad are sort of in the helping professions.
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But I thought I wanted to be a surgeon or a veterinarian.
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And then in college and beyond, I kind of realized that I was much more fascinated with the emotional mental health and relationship things that people struggle with and wanting to learn about that.
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And as I learned and grew, I also healed myself.
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And I just found that was what intrigued me most.
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So as I developed my career, I bounced around in lots of different areas.
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And then about six years ago, I really wanted to share more of what I'm learned with a wider audience.
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And most people kind of get to that point and write a book, and I did not want to write a book.
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So I started the YouTube channel because I thought, you know, people are watching YouTube, they're not reading books.
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And I really want to share some of the strategies and information and perspectives that I've learned with so many people who will never have access to a therapist.
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So I started that.
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And then what resonated for people and what people were most troubled about and most curious about was toxic, especially narcissistic relationships.
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So I began to kind of focus on that.
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And I've even added that to my channel, Therapist Talks, Thorivity on Narcissism.
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And that's kind of where I'm coming from too.
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And then a couple of years ago, I decided I had to write this stupid book, After Ball, because you can't really teach people how to heal this whole huge array of struggles in 10 minute segments.
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So I do have a book out on Amazon, and I think it's been helpful to a lot of people.
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I hope so.
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And then I've been podcasting and doing a lot of that sort of thing because people don't do book tours anymore, they podcast.
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And I've actually really enjoyed that.
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And then have also started doing individual anchored coaching for people who really need personalized help.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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And just the evolution being really organic is a great way.
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Because you know it's effective, right?
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If there's continued appetite for what you're sharing and people who want to learn and grow from the research and from the experiences that you've had, you know, you're making an impact.
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Yeah.
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Well, let's get into it.
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I'm excited about learning from you.
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Like I said, you have a lot of experience with the growth that can result from really hard things.
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And one of the ways I like to phrase it for myself and for other people is that sometimes life invites us to circumstances that then invite us to grow.
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And I think that in your, like you said, your experience and in the work that you do, some of these experiences can be pretty tender.
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So for our listeners today, just know as we're talking about narcissism, we might be talking about abuse, we might be talking about some of the lingering effects of relationships that weren't healthy.
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That the tools that we're sharing are a means for you to move through those experiences with more of your wholeness intact, right?
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Okay, so with that little intro, let's talk about some of the leading causes of stress because these underlying things, I think sometimes we don't draw the connections between our current experience and the stress that we face in everyday moments and some of these experiences that we've had in the past or are currently having.
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That's such an important and huge question because I perceive it as we have internal stresses that aren't even about the here and now.
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And that's where I always start when I'm working with somebody and in my book.
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It's so important that we look at the toxic relationship we have inside our own head.
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So we talk to ourselves something like 70,000 times a day.
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And the way we talk to ourselves is either really hurtful and harmful and discouraging and depressing and anxiety provoking, or it is helpful, encouraging, supportive, and helps us grow.
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And that is absolutely step one is looking at that.
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I had a therapist early on in my early 20s who said, I want you to write down every time you say something negative about yourself throughout the day.
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And I thought, well, that sounds really dumb.
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And then I started to do it and I was like, holy smugglers, this is really bad.
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And had no idea.
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I think we don't have an awareness around that.
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And always when I start working with people, I suss that out first because there can be tons of stress in our lives, and we can ride it like a surfer on a big wave.
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And there can be absolutely no stress in our lives, and we're beating ourselves to a pulp internally and experiencing a tremendous amount of stress.
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So we have to start inside, it's an inside job.
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Yeah, so well put.
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And I can really relate to the realization that the voice, when initially listened to, is often not a positive one.
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And just the recognition that there's so much that comes through that's not only not true, but not helpful.
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In certain seasons, I taught meditation teachers.
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So it was an instructor.
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And one of the things that without fail would happen is when they would come through the program and the training, they would have this realization.
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They would be like, listening to my thoughts is actually not something I want to do anymore of.
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And we'd be like, Well, that's actually part of the process, right?
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Is recognizing it so that you can work with it.
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So yeah, I can appreciate that that's where you begin.
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Is that what you encourage people to do?
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Is write down what they're thinking, like what they're saying to themselves.
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What's your approach for helping them shift that voice?
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Yeah.
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So the book subtitle is Journaling to Help You Guild from Toxic Relationships.
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Because I really believe that we have great dialogue with ourselves in journaling.
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And some people hate to journal and that's fine.
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But I think when we can sort of share our thoughts on paper or in a computer if you want.
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But if we kind of vent, vent vent and then say, yeah, but then we kind of dialogue a little bit in a more healthy way with ourselves so that you can kind of go into that negative brand, but then you sort of bring up your rational mind and bring out a more even approach.
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And that can be a great way to dialogue with ourselves.
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So when it comes to how we talk to ourselves, writing those things out is the first set of journal prompts, and then starting to look at where those messages came from.
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Because Bethel Vanderkoogens, the psychiatrist who really has done a tremendous amount of study and trauma.
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His body keeps the scores just amazing.
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And it's really he talks about templates.
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So a lot of times you'll get people who say, Well, you know, she or he is always getting into those bound relationships.
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They just like being in chaos, or they like the bad boy or the crazy girl or whatever, you know.
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And that's not true.
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Nobody likes it, nobody's comfortable with it, but it does resonate.
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There's a template that we created in childhood of I can handle this, I can fix this, I can manage this person, I can help them, I can make them feel better.
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All of those templates that we create in childhood with some relationship in our lives, then inform our later relationships in our adult lives.
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And it's truly no longer serving us.
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You know, it might have helped us survive as a kid.
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Being able to placate and read the room and suss out everybody's mood challenges might have kept us alive when we were a little kid and their parents fighting or whatever it was.
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But as an adult, choosing those types of relationships where you have to show up as a placator and peacekeeper is not healthy.
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It's actually can be toxic, meaning that it is killing you while you're helping that other person, maybe.
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So that's really important is to list down those things that we say to ourselves and then find out where they came from and start to dissect and disentangle all that mess so that we can create a healthier story for ourselves moving forward.
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Yeah, it was so succinct and the process itself being such a generally long-ish one, right?
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Yeah, and it's such a good point you bring up.
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It's something we talk about in our house a lot, is this idea that what happens here will be what is familiar to our daughter, right?
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Like the relational patterns and the words we use, the way we treat her, that will be her, like you're saying, template.
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And that will be what's comfortable or natural to her.
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And sometimes it can feel a little jarring as a parent to recognize maybe some of the different habits or patterns we've brought into our relationship or the ways we've cultivated templates that aren't serving, like you're saying.
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And I think being able to sit in the discomfort of that can be ultimately healing, but at the outset, really hard to do, right?
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When you're sitting down making that list and noticing the way you're talking to yourself and recognizing that's also the way maybe your kiddos are talking to themselves, or you know, like you see the pattern playing out multi-generationally.
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And I think you you bring up such a good point that it's like we didn't learn that from nowhere, right?
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So as we can identify where it came from, what are some of the ways you encourage people to be compassionate with themselves and maybe with the realizations that come with some of that journaling?
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Yeah.
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And it takes a lot of practice.
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So I think, first of all, the awareness around it and helping yourself understand that that is not your voice.
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So if you think about it, you know, if I have a friend who's going through a struggle, I'm not saying, oh, you're such an idiot.
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You're always doing corrupt voices.
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Yeah.
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What do you mean?
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But I might say that to myself, but I wouldn't ever speak to anyone that way.
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So my voice is what I want to incorporate into my head and letting go of whatever voice that is that you incorporated as a child.
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And it could be that no one actually ever spoke to you that way.
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It's just how you storied what happened to you.
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So for a lot of kids, if there's a lot of chaos and they felt like their needs weren't being met, they can story that as I wasn't important or I am not important, or I am unlovable, or I am unworthy of importance.
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So it isn't like a direct thing that somebody said to you.
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It's how you storied the experiences you were having.
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And each kid in a family can have completely different experiences, as we've all witnessed.
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That doesn't mean that one kid was crazy and the other one knew what was up.
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It means that we each have different experiences of the exact same experience because of how we are storing it for ourselves.
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And being really compassionate because you've said these things to yourself 70,000 times a day for however many days you've been alive.
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Yeah, that's a lot to undo.
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So we have to say, okay, oops, I'm doing it again instead of oh, you idiot, you're never gonna get this right.
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So we can beat ourselves up in our recovery too.
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Yeah.
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We have to be careful about that.
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It takes time and practice.
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So then the next step is I have people bless down the things that they truly like and respect and and care about themselves in character qualities and values.
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Our culture is really messed up in this way.
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Our self-esteem is wrapped up in how many likes we got or how many Instagram reposts we got or how our hair and males look today, or whatever.
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That's not self-esteem.
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Self-esteem is who I am as a person, how I show up in the world and for other people, and those character qualities and those values are who I am.
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And when we list those things off, I often find that people who have terrible self-talk, they actually can really speak about yeah, I show I'm a good friend.
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I work really hard at work.
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People look to me on the crew and really lean in beneath because they trust me in a crisis.
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You know, there are like a thousand things, and it takes some time to unearth those things.
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Sometimes you have to employ friends and family to help you with that list.
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But when you can superimpose that list of truths onto that old list of lies, then you've got something going on and now you're starting to heal.
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Yeah.
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I love the way you phrased all of that because I think that the process itself is so valuable, even though it's challenging.
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It's a tough thing to recognize the different ways we're kind of stealing our own energy with the negative self-talk, but then also the potential that we open up for using those energy in different ways once we recognize what we're doing and then have the opportunity to shift it.
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Like the potential is so great.
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And so being able to engage with the process with as much compassion as you can muster, recognizing that your compassion and snowball is going to keep rolling down the hill the more that you engage.
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Talk to me about some of the relationship stressors that you see as part of this process.
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Cause it's not like most of us are going away, well, it would be lovely, going away on a retreat to do this work and figure ourselves out and then come back to our people sorted and ready to go, right?
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Like we're just doing it in the messy middle.
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We have to cope with life on life's terms and here and now while we're healing, and what that looks like for each of us is very, very different.
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But I think that as we have compassion and recognition, as I do a big piece, like the whole middle third of my book is kind of on healing, and the last third is on rebuilding, because we need to rebuild our sense of self.
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We need to rebuild probably our community and rebuild our everything.
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You know, sometimes when people recognize a toxic relationship in their lives and they start to heal, then they realize, oh wow, that friend treats me like garbage too.
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And oh man, I'm completely doormat with my kids.
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And oh man, I'm showing up even at the PTA and I'm just everybody's go-to and I'm suck dry.
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So we have to recognize all the different areas of our lives, and oftentimes it becomes a domino effect where we have to look at all these different relationships and reassess.
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Essentially, if my thoughts, feelings, wants, and needs don't matter in that relationship, then that's not a healthy relationship.
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Now it could be that I set that in motion because I showed up as a people pleaser placater, and I got that train rolling, and I have to take responsibility for the tracks that that's on, and I have to regroup and start to show up a hundred percent, and then see what happens.
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You know, I've actually had some pretty chaotic relationships, long-term marriages where the dynamics are just not healthy.
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And when one person says, No, I'm not gonna let you treat me that way, when you talk to me that way, I'm out.
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And we can talk about later when you can calm down and be a grown-up about this, but being able to state your thoughts, feelings, wants, and needs, and then seeing what happens.
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And sometimes the other person will go, Oh, okay, cool.
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You know, yeah, you're right.
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I shouldn't be talking to you that way.
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Yeah, you're right.
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We shouldn't be doing it our relationship this way.
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And I'm sorry, we and I will show up differently, and I welcome you showing up fully.
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Sometimes somebody will escalate to violence, and that's a person that you know has no interest in you fully existing in that relationship, and then you know that is literally killing you, that's toxic.
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So then you go, okay, good information.
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Bye-bye.
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Yeah.
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So that's how those boundaries get us what we need to know to do with that relationship.
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Yeah.
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And I think one of the things that can be tricky in those moments is recognizing where balanced is, like where healthy, what healthy looks like.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:10.319
I was talking to a dear friend the other day, and she's been navigating this kind of exploration for probably the better part of eight years or so.
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:17.200
And it's been such a layered experience for her in terms of this recognition you're describing.
00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:23.519
Because there were some moments when something that was slightly healthier felt really healthy to her.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.599
And so she would engage with that, like on that level.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:32.000
And then it ended up that wasn't like a good fit, right?
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:38.240
And so in romantic relationships, in friendships, she's been really trying to sort out what healthy looks like.
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:43.279
And one of the things she's come back and said often is I don't actually know.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:53.839
You know, and she's like, I'm looking for some sort of anchor or tether that helps me know what healthy is because I don't have lived experience of it myself.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:58.640
And it's been a privilege as her friend to kind of watch her navigate this.
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:07.359
The other day we met for lunch and she was talking and she was like, I finally feel like I have all the pieces and I can see things more clearly.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.359
And I just had so much respect for her.
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:15.279
I'm like tearing up as I'm talking to her because I was just like, you have put so much effort into this.
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:16.000
You know what I mean?
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:23.039
And the growth that she committed to and the evolution of herself that she realized was possible.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:28.319
It took a lot of intention and research, and she did a lot of journaling and all the things.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.640
But to see her now feeling that sense of having an anchor is so incredible.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:41.279
Along the way, what are you helping people anchor to as they navigate this process?
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.599
Yeah, that's such a good question.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:55.759
I think going back to those values and now and values clarification piece and recognizing who you are as a person, as a whole person, showing up fully in all your relationships.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.759
And I think that takes real ongoing.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:01.519
Intentionality.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:08.480
I really encourage people to go into relationships more slowly than our culture teaches us to.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:23.519
So, you know, when you spend time with somebody and there's that real intense feeling, you need to take a stand back and take a breath and hang with your friends or spend a night alone so that you can really tune back into you.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:36.880
We are so prone to jumping into that people pleasing and getting that positive feedback from somebody and then getting sort of a dopamine hit off of it and then kind of escalating into full-on addiction from there.
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:46.400
And very many relationships are based on that escalating addiction as opposed to an attachment as opposed to true love.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:48.160
True love takes time.
00:22:48.480 --> 00:23:01.759
You don't really know a person until you've seen them sad, mad, discouraged, disappointed, all of the things, like every single emotion, and seeing how they respond to that.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:16.319
Then you get to see are they loving and compassionate and giving and forgiving, or are they childish and reactive and tantrumy and imploding, exfloating, all those things that are huge red flags.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.960
But if you jump in the sack with somebody on the third date, you're not going to see them.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:27.119
You're going to get attached to them at a very gut level and not see things clearly.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:37.680
So checking back in with yourself, being very intentional as you go into relationships, making your values and your character the center.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.119
A lot of people say, I want to learn how to trust people again because I've been hurt.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.119
I don't want people to learn to trust other people.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.279
I want them to learn to trust themselves.
00:23:49.599 --> 00:24:00.880
So I'm always debunking that and saying what matters is that you learn to know who you are and what you want and need and think and feel.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:11.759
And that as you honor that and that other person resonates with that, that it feels good and you progress that relationship.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:31.839
But if that changes one day, then you trust yourself not to just get on board with that and keep going down that road, but you back up and say, wow, when they get hurt or disappointed or the shininess is off of this relationship, things have gotten really ugly.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:38.799
Now a lot of us will go into the, oh, well, if I work really hard, I can get back to that first shiny moment.
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:41.039
That's not reality.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:50.480
The what happens later in the day-to-day life during life's ups and downs, that's the real reality of the relationship.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:57.359
So if that doesn't look good, don't keep chasing that first initial high, because that's not real.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:24:59.599
That's just that initial high.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.319
So it's really important to keep checking back in with yourself and seeing what happens.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:13.359
Oftentimes, if you say, Well, I don't want to hang out tonight, I need to just sit in my jammies and watch a bad show.
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:15.440
You get to see what happens.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:32.079
And if that person goes to you and kind of gives you a little pouty thing or gets aggravated, or if you want to spend time with your friends or your family and they have these little I call it microaggressions, and then you kind of know, wow, that's interesting.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.279
You know, like I don't that's interesting.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.160
And as you add up those interestings, then you get to see where this is heading.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.440
Yeah.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:49.759
Yeah, that was a mic drop moment, I think, when you said you don't teach them to trust other people, but rather to trust themselves.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:56.400
And I appreciate the way you explained it because I think that especially when we're talking about narcissism, right?
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